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Post by fretslider on Apr 30, 2016 4:08:41 GMT -5
They are and were popular at one time. Nowhere near as big as Prince, but a good band. They're still well liked but not to the same degree as Prince. But my point was the record sales, not the beauty contest, nor who is more talented. Success in the industry always comes down to the bottom line. I've encountered some amazing musicians over the years and they have got nowhere. You can be a truly great virtuoso, but if nobody likes what you do... Mariah Carey was dropped by Virgin Records and her $80 million recording deal canceled after her first album released by the label sold poorly. Was it a good album? I don't know, but that's the way it goes.
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Jessiealan
xr
Member of the Month, October 2013
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Post by Jessiealan on Apr 30, 2016 9:32:30 GMT -5
They're still well liked but not to the same degree as Prince. But my point was the record sales, not the beauty contest, nor who is more talented. Success in the industry always comes down to the bottom line. I've encountered some amazing musicians over the years and they have got nowhere. You can be a truly great virtuoso, but if nobody likes what you do... Mariah Carey was dropped by Virgin Records and her $80 million recording deal canceled after her first album released by the label sold poorly. Was it a good album? I don't know, but that's the way it goes. I see what you are saying, Fretslider. Pop music is called "pop" for a reason. While I am sure Prince was very talented, he would still have needed the record companies to help promote his records. Of course, I am not sure Frank Zappa was a big commercial success either, but am thinking he was not.
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Jessiealan
xr
Member of the Month, October 2013
Posts: 8,726
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Post by Jessiealan on Apr 30, 2016 9:33:40 GMT -5
beth they have already closed down the 2 performances you posted, I see. That is too bad.
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Post by beth on Apr 30, 2016 10:41:38 GMT -5
beth they have already closed down the 2 performances you posted, I see. That is too bad. That's too bad. I've put in a couple of much lesser substitutes. I'll try to get the SuperBowl performance back as and when it becomes available. That was one helluva show.
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Post by beth on Apr 30, 2016 11:07:56 GMT -5
They're still well liked but not to the same degree as Prince. But my point was the record sales, not the beauty contest, nor who is more talented. Success in the industry always comes down to the bottom line. I've encountered some amazing musicians over the years and they have got nowhere. You can be a truly great virtuoso, but if nobody likes what you do... Mariah Carey was dropped by Virgin Records and her $80 million recording deal canceled after her first album released by the label sold poorly. Was it a good album? I don't know, but that's the way it goes. I think artists, especially very talented artists, sometimes become convinced they have to do everything. They lose the ability to delegate responsibility (if they ever had it to begin with). Obviously, it's a control issue. It may be admirable to a point, but it isn't good for business, if you see what I mean. People (generally speaking) loved Prince to the point many of them wanted little pieces of him and he really didn't have any kind of barrier set up to protect himself. He was in need of good management who could and would protect and promote without eating him alive.
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Post by men an tol on Apr 30, 2016 11:44:12 GMT -5
Beth these are very good points you are making. How many times have we seen very talented artists do just what you are suggesting. Say a very good comedian who has made some excellent movies and then decides to become writer, actor, producer, and director in a new movie and it flops.
To live in that entertainment world without some stabilizing close supporters, seems to be a recipe for coming disaster. To apparently come to believe that the world is in its entirety in that entertainment field, is to come to believe in an illusion. I think that can be true outside of the entertainment world and we can all become victims of our own illusions. Maybe the greater the success, the greater is the danger of believing the illusion.
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Post by Dex on Apr 30, 2016 12:47:22 GMT -5
But my point was the record sales, not the beauty contest, nor who is more talented. Success in the industry always comes down to the bottom line. I've encountered some amazing musicians over the years and they have got nowhere. You can be a truly great virtuoso, but if nobody likes what you do... Mariah Carey was dropped by Virgin Records and her $80 million recording deal canceled after her first album released by the label sold poorly. Was it a good album? I don't know, but that's the way it goes. I think artists, especially very talented artists, sometimes become convinced they have to do everything. They lose the ability to delegate responsibility (if they ever had it to begin with). Obviously, it's a control issue. It may be admirable to a point, but it isn't good for business, if you see what I mean. People (generally speaking) loved Prince to the point many of them wanted little pieces of him and he really didn't have any kind of barrier set up to protect himself. He was in need of good management who could and would protect and promote without eating him alive. Well, he's Legend now, Right up there with Buddy Holly, Elvis, Ray Charles, David Bowie, all of the great ones. I hope whoever is put in charge of his body of work treats it with respect.
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Post by annaj26 on Apr 30, 2016 19:12:06 GMT -5
Beth these are very good points you are making. How many times have we seen very talented artists do just what you are suggesting. Say a very good comedian who has made some excellent movies and then decides to become writer, actor, producer, and director in a new movie and it flops. To live in that entertainment world without some stabilizing close supporters, seems to be a receipt for coming disaster. To apparently come to believe that the world is in its entirety in that entertainment field, is to come to believe in an illusion. I think that can be true outside of the entertainment world and we can all become victims of our own illusions. Maybe the greater the success, the greater is the danger of believing the illusion. That's probably true, Menantol. Entertainment people do have agents who do a lot toward helping them find work and recommending the best legal and creative people to help them. But, this is Prince's thread and I don't want to wander off onto something else. I think I remember that he had a contract and the record company wanted to control everything he did with his music. It's something that happened to a lot of musicians and probably still does. Scroll back up to the video with Prince and Arcineo Hall. Watch it. He talks about some of that and also about why he felt he had to restrict internet access to his music. He didn't feel he could give his music away. It was his creative output and he was proud of it, but it was also his livlihood.
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Post by men an tol on Apr 30, 2016 19:49:54 GMT -5
Sorry, if I got off thread Anna. I actually thought I was referring to Prince's situation as I was responding to Beth's comments which also referred to other entertainment artists. She was using Mariah Carey and I was using an unnamed comedian as an analogy.
However, the point is the same, Prince living in that entertainment world is subject to becoming self confident to the point that decisions made are not always in his best interest. Often hanger-ons promote such a personal view.
Of course all that is coming out now is what the news media releases (not always the best source). Even so, they are saying that his net worth is about 300 million dollars and if that is true then he was doing some things in his best interests. While they are saying that he died intestate, I suspect that he had other provisions in business structures.
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Post by beth on Apr 30, 2016 21:53:37 GMT -5
Sorry, if I got off thread Anna. I actually thought I was referring to Prince's situation as I was responding to Beth's comments which also referred to other entertainment artists. She was using Mariah Carey and I was using an unnamed comedian as an analogy. However, the point is the same, Prince living in that entertainment world is subject to becoming self confident to the point that decisions made are not always in his best interest. Often hanger-ons promote such a personal view. Of course all that is coming out now is what the news media releases (not always the best source). Even so, they are saying that his net worth is about 300 million dollars and if that is true then he was doing some things in his best interests. While they are saying that he died intestate, I suspect that he had other provisions in business structures. No Men an tol .. go back and re-look. I was replying to something Fret had referenced but then tied it right back into the subject of the thread. It doesn't matter, as long as we kind of stay on track. Not sure about his provisions. Media reports are mostly simple hearsay .. maybe exaggerated to provide a more sensational view. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. A lot of value is apparently tied up in a vault of unpublished music. If it's handled with care, it could be worth more. If his siblings just sell it out hap-hazard to the highest bidders, much if it could be lost. I think it's safe to say, Prince expected to be around a lot longer.
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Post by beth on May 1, 2016 2:05:17 GMT -5
FINALLY found the video I've been looking for all week. Knew it had to be there. Prince at the Brits, 2006 One of the best performances. Don't start it unless you intend to watch it all. Also, I think the Hall of Fame induction performance might be stacked on with this one. You're welcome.
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Post by beth on May 1, 2016 2:16:17 GMT -5
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Post by fretslider on May 1, 2016 5:02:06 GMT -5
But my point was the record sales, not the beauty contest, nor who is more talented. Success in the industry always comes down to the bottom line. I've encountered some amazing musicians over the years and they have got nowhere. You can be a truly great virtuoso, but if nobody likes what you do... Mariah Carey was dropped by Virgin Records and her $80 million recording deal canceled after her first album released by the label sold poorly. Was it a good album? I don't know, but that's the way it goes. I see what you are saying, Fretslider. Pop music is called "pop" for a reason. While I am sure Prince was very talented, he would still have needed the record companies to help promote his records. Of course, I am not sure Frank Zappa was a big commercial success either, but am thinking he was not. Zappa was not what you would call a pop musician. Far from it, but he was a a one man music conservatory that took on promising talent and threw out refined performers. The list of names is pretty long members.shaw.ca/fz-pomd/lineups/masterlist.htmlTake Steve Vai. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_VaiVai started his music career in 1978 at the age of 18 as a transcriptionist for Frank Zappa, and joined his band from 1980 to 1983. He embarked on a solo career in 1983 and has released eight solo albums to date. He has recorded and toured with Alcatrazz, David Lee Roth, Whitesnake, as well as having recorded with artists such as Mary J. Blige, Spinal Tap, and Ozzy Osbourne. Additionally, Vai has toured with live-only acts G3, Zappa Plays Zappa, the Experience Hendrix tour, as well as headlining international tours.Even established artists felt the pull While touring in late 1975, Roxy Music opened for Frank Zappa's band in Milwaukee, WI; it was at this performance that Jobson and Zappa first met. After the Roxy tour ended, Jobson subsequently spent a week in early 1976 travelling with Zappa's band in Canada, during which time the Jobson and Zappa performed a varied repertoire in hotel rooms and backstage at concert venues. Jobson was eventually brought onstage with only minutes' notice to perform what was essentially an audition before thousands of Zappa fans.
Once Roxy Music went on hiatus in 1976, Jobson's became heavily sought after. He contemplated an offer to join Procol Harum, but ultimately decided to become a member of Frank Zappa's band. Although Jobson appeared on the cover of the Zoot Allures (1976) album, he did not perform on any of the recorded tracks. In a 1995 interview with Art Rock Magazine, Jobson explained that Zappa always recorded everything and whoever was in the band at the time of its release made it onto the album cover: "You may be in the group when it comes out, or maybe you left the band five years before the album comes out. That's how he makes records". Jobson did however perform on the 1978 live album, Zappa in New York and Philly '76 which Zappa's label released posthumously in 2009. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_JobsonZappa was an independent who escaped the labels. I wonder about Prince's management...
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Post by fretslider on May 1, 2016 5:10:08 GMT -5
But my point was the record sales, not the beauty contest, nor who is more talented. Success in the industry always comes down to the bottom line. I've encountered some amazing musicians over the years and they have got nowhere. You can be a truly great virtuoso, but if nobody likes what you do... Mariah Carey was dropped by Virgin Records and her $80 million recording deal canceled after her first album released by the label sold poorly. Was it a good album? I don't know, but that's the way it goes. I think artists, especially very talented artists, sometimes become convinced they have to do everything. They lose the ability to delegate responsibility (if they ever had it to begin with). Obviously, it's a control issue. It may be admirable to a point, but it isn't good for business, if you see what I mean. People (generally speaking) loved Prince to the point many of them wanted little pieces of him and he really didn't have any kind of barrier set up to protect himself. He was in need of good management who could and would protect and promote without eating him alive. Funnily enough, I mentioned his management to Jessie just now. Art for Art's sake, money for God's sake.
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Post by Dex on May 1, 2016 8:37:10 GMT -5
I see what you are saying, Fretslider. Pop music is called "pop" for a reason. While I am sure Prince was very talented, he would still have needed the record companies to help promote his records. Of course, I am not sure Frank Zappa was a big commercial success either, but am thinking he was not. Zappa was not what you would call a pop musician. Far from it, but he was a a one man music conservatory that took on promising talent and threw out refined performers. The list of names is pretty long members.shaw.ca/fz-pomd/lineups/masterlist.htmlTake Steve Vai. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_VaiVai started his music career in 1978 at the age of 18 as a transcriptionist for Frank Zappa, and joined his band from 1980 to 1983. He embarked on a solo career in 1983 and has released eight solo albums to date. He has recorded and toured with Alcatrazz, David Lee Roth, Whitesnake, as well as having recorded with artists such as Mary J. Blige, Spinal Tap, and Ozzy Osbourne. Additionally, Vai has toured with live-only acts G3, Zappa Plays Zappa, the Experience Hendrix tour, as well as headlining international tours.Even established artists felt the pull While touring in late 1975, Roxy Music opened for Frank Zappa's band in Milwaukee, WI; it was at this performance that Jobson and Zappa first met. After the Roxy tour ended, Jobson subsequently spent a week in early 1976 travelling with Zappa's band in Canada, during which time the Jobson and Zappa performed a varied repertoire in hotel rooms and backstage at concert venues. Jobson was eventually brought onstage with only minutes' notice to perform what was essentially an audition before thousands of Zappa fans.
Once Roxy Music went on hiatus in 1976, Jobson's became heavily sought after. He contemplated an offer to join Procol Harum, but ultimately decided to become a member of Frank Zappa's band. Although Jobson appeared on the cover of the Zoot Allures (1976) album, he did not perform on any of the recorded tracks. In a 1995 interview with Art Rock Magazine, Jobson explained that Zappa always recorded everything and whoever was in the band at the time of its release made it onto the album cover: "You may be in the group when it comes out, or maybe you left the band five years before the album comes out. That's how he makes records". Jobson did however perform on the 1978 live album, Zappa in New York and Philly '76 which Zappa's label released posthumously in 2009. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_JobsonZappa was an independent who escaped the labels. I wonder about Prince's management... I'm not sure Prince had management that did much. He was his own management mostly. Wish all his talent there was that big ego of his. It worked against him as much as for him.
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