Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on May 27, 2013 19:06:35 GMT -5
PC is part and parcel of the attitudes that have encouraged the western countries to let huge numbers of eastern immigrants come in and set up terrorist activity from the inside. it's akin to charity and kindness ... things we've long taken pride in offering. Hard not see that, but I guess some folks wear blinders. Concur 100% (We need a 'thumbs up' emoticon ) Wot? Like this one...?
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on May 27, 2013 19:09:34 GMT -5
The strategy is to attack the weakness and that weakness is our (western) humanity. Just look at the violence in Islamic lands, it gets pretty depraved. They place a much lower value on human life including their own Very true. We wish to live; the islamist welcomes death, with the promises of all sorts of goodies in the afterlife - particularly if you got topped whilst fighting for your sky fairy... What grips my s**t is the radicals allowed to freely walk amongst us claiming we are killing their brothers in Syria. Do they think we're that that thick? Assad is killing them - and he's getting his weapons from Russia, not the EU! Hague is talking about getting the embargo dropped so we can arm the dissidents so they can "defend themselves." That's still wrong, according to Choudary. It's still wrong according to me, too, since it seems if we do that we'll be arming a sizeable number of AQ wannabe's.
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on May 27, 2013 19:11:28 GMT -5
and at the bottom of it all is "our" golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The problem is .. it isn't their golden rule and nobody told them "turn about is fair play" or that "fair" is a positive option. Absolutely. They regard our generosity & kindness as weakness; one which can, and is, exploited to the full. As the saying has it, "East is East, West is West, & ne'er the twain shall meet". Sadly, despite the wishful thinking of some, in many cases that is very, very true. Sadly, the way I'm thinking at the moment it's fine if east meets west, as long as it's by the east running head-first into the detonator on the nose of the west's big, fat nuclear warhead.
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Post by markindurham on May 28, 2013 1:37:05 GMT -5
Concur 100% (We need a 'thumbs up' emoticon ) Wot? Like this one...? That's the fella! Not sure if we can add smileys to our list of PB-supplied ones though...
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Post by markindurham on May 28, 2013 1:38:24 GMT -5
Very true. We wish to live; the islamist welcomes death, with the promises of all sorts of goodies in the afterlife - particularly if you got topped whilst fighting for your sky fairy... What grips my s**t is the radicals allowed to freely walk amongst us claiming we are killing their brothers in Syria. Do they think we're that that thick? Assad is killing them - and he's getting his weapons from Russia, not the EU! Hague is talking about getting the embargo dropped so we can arm the dissidents so they can "defend themselves." That's still wrong, according to Choudary. It's still wrong according to me, too, since it seems if we do that we'll be arming a sizeable number of AQ wannabe's. Yep, concur. What is it with our cretinous politicians? We learn from our mistakes - why don't they?
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on May 28, 2013 3:10:26 GMT -5
Wot? Like this one...? That's the fella! Not sure if we can add smileys to our list of PB-supplied ones though... I just have a folder in my Bookmarks list for smileys and keep the image URL in there.
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Post by mouse on May 28, 2013 3:58:12 GMT -5
I've heard some ridiculous ideas in my time but the idea that political correctness is somehow to blame for Islamic terrorism is about the most stupid one I've come across since I read the theory that JFK committed suicide! -PC enables...but the others have covered that....
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ladylinda
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Post by ladylinda on May 28, 2013 16:48:30 GMT -5
PC enables nothing - PC is just a bunch of ideas.
What 'enables' bad things is people and those who are daft enough to follow stupid ideas.
Now some of the most fundamental 'Western' mores are
freedom tolerance fairness
I've NEVER pretended that the fundo Muslim lot believe in them NOR have I ever suggested that their ideas and beliefs are not evil in my eyes.
But there's a real danger that the neo-Nazis, crypto-fascists and other enemies of freedom will use (well, they already are using) the 'war on terror' as an excuse to rob what few freedoms we've managed to hang on to.
And it saddens me when conservatives and socialists unite in a holy alliance to use the threat of ONE bunch of intolerant, authoritarian scumbags to make us submit to the rule of ANOTHER bunch of intolerant, authoritarian scumbags.
And that's the point that the EDL/BNP sympathisers tend to miss; just as the leftwing fascists do who pretend to be anti-Zionist when actually they're all anti-Semites.
So let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Our freedom, our tolerance, our sense of fairness, our compassion are very precious to most DECENT people in the West and they're one of the things that set us apart from Assad, bin Laden and all the rest of the moronic authoritarian twats who want to oppress us.
Let's remember that WE are the civilised ones and that our civilised values are too precious to let the enemies of freedom - WHOEVER they are - ride roughshod over them and con us into surrendering them.
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Post by beth on May 28, 2013 20:48:43 GMT -5
Nice post, Lin. Thanks for what amounts to a lecture ... but an interesting lecture anyway.
The western qualities we are pondering are kindness and courtesy and how they are a part of our positive thoughts and actions ... not really the broad, multi faceted fairness, freedom and tolerance. Those things could provoke a long complex philosophical discussion, and it would lead far away from the point of the thread.
We used to have a President who said, "they hate us for our freedoms". A speculation that deserves at least a little thought. But, in order to reply to the origin post, here, and those following after, you'll need to consider the possibility that the very "kindness" and "courtesy" our parents instilled in us might breed PC attitudes toward the people who will destroy us AND our morally correct attitudes if they find an opportunity.
What you're doing here is exactly what politicians and media commentators do to re-frame a discussion and take it to a different level. In reply, I'm simply going to ask you whether you really believe PC attitudes and practices do not make us more vulnerable to those who are, essentially, the enemy.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with giving up freedom, tolerance and fairness but it does suggest we wake up and smell the coffee instead of stumbling into belly button gazing and vague, fugue inducing rhetoric that leads nowhere.
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Post by mouse on May 29, 2013 4:04:07 GMT -5
exactly Beth """"What you're doing here is exactly what politicians and media commentators do to re-frame a discussion and take it to a different level. In reply, I'm simply going to ask you whether you really believe PC attitudes and practices do not make us more vulnerable to those who are, essentially, the enemy."""
PC makes us very vunerable as do good manners,,equality and kindness........ a very good illustration of this was the water shortage a few years ago...the water lorries and .the taps on the stand pipes were turned on at a certain time every day as were and in the English way people lined up to take their turn..they were urged NOT to take more than was needed and most people duly filled their containers and went home and would return when they needed more...no pushing or shoving or angriness etc except there were several instances of people returning to the line or trying to push in ahead of their turn...several times in different parts of the country people were filmed filling more containers than they needed and putting them into the back of cars and vans....each time it was actually immigrants doing this because they didn't understand the concept of the common good or only taking what you needed thus leaving enough for others..ie they didn't not understand our norms..they had come from very different backgrounds where forst to grab was to survive its the same with bumping into people..we automaticly say sorry....and don't expect to be met with aggression.....that for us is a norm the word islamophobia was coined to ridicule those who had concerns about things Islamic and to stop coments and conversations[it backfired]but for quite a long time we were looked on askance if we talked about islam.. the BBC is a prime example of PC..taken to stupid lengths so much so they will avoid the word muslim or islam even when there is a direct confrontation
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Post by markindurham on May 29, 2013 5:19:27 GMT -5
Nice post, Lin. Thanks for what amounts to a lecture ... but an interesting lecture anyway. The western qualities we are pondering are kindness and courtesy and how they are a part of our positive thoughts and actions ... not really the broad, multi faceted fairness, freedom and tolerance. Those things could provoke a long complex philosophical discussion, and it would lead far away from the point of the thread. We used to have a President who said, "they hate us for our freedoms". A speculation that deserves at least a little thought. But, in order to reply to the origin post, here, and those following after, you'll need to consider the possibility that the very "kindness" and "courtesy" our parents instilled in us might breed PC attitudes toward the people who will destroy us AND our morally correct attitudes if they find an opportunity. What you're doing here is exactly what politicians and media commentators do to re-frame a discussion and take it to a different level. In reply, I'm simply going to ask you whether you really believe PC attitudes and practices do not make us more vulnerable to those who are, essentially, the enemy. That has nothing whatsoever to do with giving up freedom, tolerance and fairness but it does suggest we wake up and smell the coffee instead of stumbling into belly button gazing and vague, fugue inducing rhetoric that leads nowhere. Well said. Nicely put The enemy does NOT conform to our niceties, and in its present form never will. Indeed, the chances of it reforming are, on available evidence, somewhere between 'slim' and 'none' - and there are as yet unconfirmed reports that 'slim' has in fact left the building, although the sources quoted are usually pretty reliable...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 9:55:59 GMT -5
I heard Slim was last seen on the Moon working as an Elvis impersonator!
but basically Lin's got a point.
what makes usbetter than them is our compasison, kindeness, tolerance and so on.
if we give them up we're no better than the people we're supposed to be fighting
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on May 29, 2013 9:58:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately, to them those are all signs of weakness to be exploited. Which they do.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 9:59:18 GMT -5
Unfortunately, to them those are all signs of weakness to be exploited. Which they do. so what? the choice is to fight them buthold on to what makes us better and NOT to become as bad as they are and don't forget i'm NOT one of thosxe people whose naive about the danger from muslim extremists; i'm someone who would be on their death list because i;m half Jewish and who supports Israel all the way but i;m totally committed to the values of the Western liberal tradition conservatism (*even though i voted Tory in 2010) always makes my flesh creep with its authoritairnaism and hatred of freedom and lack of respect for other people it's not that different from islam to be honest
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on May 29, 2013 10:09:58 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the only way to deal with zealots like that is to fight fire with hotter fire; to make them more scared of us than we could be of them.
Not the current path of hand-wringing and appeasement practised by the blinkered yoghurt-knitting sock-puppets of the liberati.
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