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Post by beth on Oct 19, 2016 23:22:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure I've run into many patriarchal males. I've always gotten along very well with males I've worked with (mostly on an equal basis) and in general. In school, I remember 4 disagreeable college professors - 2 male and 2 female. They were equally obnoxious to everyone. One I remember from a work position was on the board of directors at a company I worked for. He brought a large German Shepherd on a short leash to board meetings .. especially when he knew only 2 or 3 admins would attend, and always sat on the same side of the table as the employee members. It was totally obvious he was attempting to intimidate. I quit that job directly because of Wally and his evil ways ... and yet, this wasn't really patriarchal .. more sociopathic, in my opinion ... out to appear abusive to males and females alike. Except for that particular incident, I don't believe I've ever felt intimidated by males. OTOH, I have scars from a few female bullies who wanted what I had. As a result, I'm still a little wary of females of the same general type. Hi Beth, Maybe the Professer only thought you might pet his dog and so give him the opportunity to get to know you better. I think that is called, being friendly? No Lassie, he wasn't a Prof, he was a hard core business man and not happy that the powers that be had allowed the employees to send a representative group to board meetings. Doggie was on a choke collar and short leash. No, he was out to intimidate. If enough of us had stood up to him and reported him we might have been able to have him removed from his seat on the board, but it was soooo much easier just to walk away. I'd do the same thing again.
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Post by Sysop3 on Oct 20, 2016 0:09:42 GMT -5
Why do you suppose that women submit to patriarchal males and don't defend other women? I find that it happens a lot in work, school, and in society in general. You lost me on the first line. What do you mean by "submit" and "defend other women"? Do you mean putting employment in jeopardy or are you talking about physical attacks?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 0:52:26 GMT -5
Why do you suppose that women submit to patriarchal males and don't defend other women? I find that it happens a lot in work, school, and in society in general. I'm not sure I've run into many patriarchal males. I've always gotten along very well with males I've worked with (mostly on an equal basis) and in general. In school, I remember 4 disagreeable college professors - 2 male and 2 female. They were equally obnoxious to everyone. One I remember from a work position was on the board of directors at a company I worked for. He brought a large German Shepherd on a short leash to board meetings .. especially when he knew only 2 or 3 admins would attend, and always sat on the same side of the table as the employee members. It was totally obvious he was attempting to intimidate. I quit that job directly because of Wally and his evil ways ... and yet, this wasn't really patriarchal .. more sociopathic, in my opinion ... out to appear abusive to males and females alike. Except for that particular incident, I don't believe I've ever felt intimidated by males. OTOH, I have scars from a few female bullies who wanted what I had. As a result, I'm still a little wary of females of the same general type. I would much rather work with males than females
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Post by mouse on Oct 20, 2016 3:53:17 GMT -5
cheff wrote """" women are much better off than they were in 1970...trust me, I've lived it along with Mouse & Jessie....I think they are the only other ladies on the board old enough to have been working in that year.""""
yes in women are very much better off..the opportunities are there for those who wish but its still hard going even in western societies
what hasn't changed though is the reality that women get pregnant and have babies and children and have to make choices men do not have to make...and there is absolutely no way around that problem as there is NO alternative to that reality...all the types of childcare in the world will not alter that great disadvantage in the work place and the other disadvantage is the same one we have always faced and that is Men and male attitudes it isn't ALL men just as it never was ALL men...but life in almost every society is male dominated the very few exceptions are now down to a handful of tribal peoples relatively untouched by modern life..
don't understand what is meant by defend or submit..i feel its deeper and more complex
the cracks in the traditional roles of women were beinging to be apparent before ww1....were very much deepend during ww1 and the years following and up to ww2 where tradition was thrown overboard by necessity...and the rest as they say is history..since then its been a steady climb.. women have lost in some areas of life in that some are expected to be traditional wives/home makers/mothers/childcares while still being expected to fill modern roles at the same time ie drivers /hostesses/cleaners and working wives etc etc
the cry against Margaret Thatcher our first female PM was that she didn't particularily promote females and wasn't pro women ...I never understood why this would be expected of her...she had got by on her own efforts so why wouldn't she expect the same from other women..same applys to Theresa May and various other high fliers who just happen to be women..we have had many notable women in the UK who paved the way for Thatcher and May and others...women who towered over many of their male counterparts at that time sadly the males ruled ..regardless of ability but those times are no past surly its would be rather defeating if women were to be promoted simply because they are women.....that's is equal to the old boys network and hardly true equality...women don't need to be pandered to or patronised..they are more than capable of getting to the top off their own bat all women need is equal education..equal opportunity..and to be treated as the equals they are
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Post by mouse on Oct 20, 2016 7:10:07 GMT -5
What about men who submit to paticachial males? Do they get a say? I guess I would be off topic once again. My apologies!! here we go yet again...and yes off topic to the max as the topic seems to quite specificly about women
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 9:03:39 GMT -5
Why do you suppose that women submit to patriarchal males and don't defend other women? I find that it happens a lot in work, school, and in society in general. You lost me on the first line. What do you mean by "submit" and "defend other women"? Do you mean putting employment in jeopardy or are you talking about physical attacks? I'm talking about psychological games, not physical attacks. I've noticed this more since I've been back at school. The women in my class are as able as any of the men, but constantly back down in arguments or are talked-over. The men, generally, enable the other men and stick together. The women don't. Either they become flirtatious and provocative - and learn that men will make some room for them, although they don't respect them for their scholarship - or they become overly aggressive and turn people off (Hillary just came to mind) because they have be super-competent to have a voice. Having become acutely aware of this, I see this pattern in different situations.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 9:13:36 GMT -5
What about men who submit to paticachial males? Do they get a say? I guess I would be off topic once again. My apologies!! That's a kind of alpha-male situation, which I'm sure can be infuriating in its own way. I described the situation I'm talking about in the previous post. I would certainly be willing to discuss the situation that you mentioned, because that also happens, although it somewhat different.
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Post by beth on Oct 20, 2016 19:49:06 GMT -5
Aside from bosses and teachers, I've seen this kind of attitude in doctors .. the ones who want to dictate and talk at length about their opinions, but who are not open to any input from the patient. Some project a different persona for female patients and are especially closed down when it comes to considering part history or any patient observations. I try to stir clear of those types. One reason I like our heath care system. You aren't stuck with a particular doctor but can change if you feel more comfortable with another physician.
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josephdphillips
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Post by josephdphillips on Oct 20, 2016 20:15:11 GMT -5
You aren't stuck with a particular doctor but can change if you feel more comfortable with another physician. Not where I live, Beth.
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Post by beth on Oct 20, 2016 20:21:33 GMT -5
You aren't stuck with a particular doctor but can change if you feel more comfortable with another physician. Not where I live, Beth. Seriously? Then the CA health care plan is similar to the one in England?
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josephdphillips
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Post by josephdphillips on Oct 20, 2016 21:14:30 GMT -5
Then the CA health care plan is similar to the one in England? Beth, I haven't had my own doctor in 40 years. Out here you get the doctor your plan gives you, or you pay through the nose to go out of network.
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Post by beth on Oct 20, 2016 21:59:06 GMT -5
Then the CA health care plan is similar to the one in England? Beth, I haven't had my own doctor in 40 years. Out here you get the doctor your plan gives you, or you pay through the nose to go out of network. That would be hard for me to accept. The medical complexes here have sites online with lists and information about all their physicians & specialists. It also tells whether they are accepting new patients (most are). It's a simple matter of choosing one and calling the office for an initial appointment. If one becomes dissatisfied, it's easy to find another and have records transferred. Everything in computerized. We can even schedule an online appointment and have a consultation .. even a 3 way consultation with the primary care doctor, the patient and a specialist. None of this requires a special type of insurance .. just the same as we've always had through work. There is a co-pay here and there, but it's usually reasonable. I'm pretty sure medicare/medicaid patients are also covered for most things.
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Post by Sysop3 on Oct 21, 2016 0:11:06 GMT -5
Then the CA health care plan is similar to the one in England? Beth, I haven't had my own doctor in 40 years. Out here you get the doctor your plan gives you, or you pay through the nose to go out of network. How did CA end up with that kind of health care system, Joe? Do I understand you right? Do the insurance companies call the shots?
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josephdphillips
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Post by josephdphillips on Oct 21, 2016 2:33:05 GMT -5
How did CA end up with that kind of health care system, Joe? Do I understand you right? Do the insurance companies call the shots? "End up" with this kind of health care system? You're joking, right? It's always been this way except for the extremely wealthy.
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Post by mouse on Oct 21, 2016 4:31:41 GMT -5
Seriously? Then the CA health care plan is similar to the one in England? our medical practice has about 6 medics and it can be worked so that you see the doctor you wish to see..but just a routine visit you can see any one of the 6 doctors but when you ring for an appointment your informed which doc it will be...or when your doc of choice has a vacancy....this way there is always some one available at holiday times and off days...if its not necessary to see a medic and a nurse can do the job..then a nurse is always available ie dressing changes..stitches out etc over 70 you have two doctors allocated as your primary medics over 75 with on going problems you are also allocated two nurseing practioners and one general nurse all three can deal with the care you need including the writings of prescriptions there is also a system in place for automatic issuing of prescriptions with a yearly review of medications [although medications can be added to or reduced at any time...but all this saves having to go to the surgery which wasts your time and that of a doctor I have one male and on female doctor..both are great..my previous female doc died unexpectedly last year and my new female doc is young but very competent and well up on new advances [even if she does have piercings] my male doc of a long time ..makes me laugh a lot and we exchange family news but he too is spot on the mark..though he is known for being quite bad tempered with time wasters long live the national health service ive had private health care and frankly if find the NHS far superior..well except for the waiting rooms and private hospitals are very lonely places ...the only advantage of private health is you don't have to wait for specialist apointments..BUT have never waited overly long on the NHS
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