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Tai Chi
Nov 7, 2015 23:30:29 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 7, 2015 23:30:29 GMT -5
Hi Men an tol, Tai Chi is secondary to what we were originally discussing and though I appreciate learning more of what you have to say, as evidently you have gone much further down that road, than I.
I am Soul first and foremost and the physical body is to me just the vehicle that I have been given in order to experience what it is that I need to know in this physical realm, taking into consideration any accrued Karma.
I am still learning, as everyone else is also learning. On this plane we start off in Primary School, then graduate to Intermediate School, then University if we so wish and have the brains to get us through successfully, so that we end up with a diploma, then onto more learning in our chosen career.
Would you say that there are different levels of education that helps us move on as we pass an exam for each level and eventually reach our goal. The same applies to spirituality, as we gain spiritual enlightenment we achieve success at each level which is assessed as an Initiation, and I have achieved the 4th level and hoping to reach the 5th level before the demise of the physical body. If I achieve that then I won't have to come back to this physical plane. It will be bliss for sure, this is what awaits me. How good can that be?
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Post by men an tol on Nov 8, 2015 0:49:56 GMT -5
First Scottish Lassie you will notice that this thread was established with the title, “Tai Chi.” That is because when it was first thought of to be move, it was considered to move into a thread under the religion umbrella. Beth was kind enough to understand that Tai Chi is 'not' a religion and so this thread was established. This was to separate it from confusion with religion.
More over we were having a dialog about spirituality and although you clearly mix spirituality with religion (and with your definition of Soul) apparently in a singular definition that seems to leave no room for spirituality outside of your definition, to the rest of the world that isn't true. Spirituality has come from all cultures and all times and they have no connection with your religion. While you are obviously free (for you and your beliefs) to define it in any way you want to do it, your beliefs have no connection to, nor any position of superiority over other beliefs with or without spirituality.
Tai Chi (and Qi Gong) is as I have stated, an exercise to bring into harmony and balance body and mind through the practice of what some have termed 'moving meditation.' In so doing some have reached a condition of spirituality and some of these people are religious and some are not. I realize that you do not agree with that and do not recognize that as spirituality, but it is. More over, their reaching of spirituality has no connection to what you term as soul. Nor does it have levels of learning.
I mentioned in an earlier post Jiddu Krishnamurti. Although now dead, he left a legacy that addressed in part (a very small part) concepts of meditation (which I defined in the past but will restate here as, his non-religious (he did not have or believe in a religion) use of the term "meditation" meant something entirely different from the practice of any system or method to control the mind, or to consciously achieve a specific goal of a mental state as he stated: " . . . Man, in order to escape his conflicts, has invented many forms of meditation. These have been based on desire, will, and the urge for achievement, and imply conflict and a struggle to arrive. This conscious, deliberate striving is always within the limits of a conditioned mind, and in this there is no freedom. All 'effort' to meditate is the denial of meditation. Meditation is the ending of thought. It is only then that there is a different dimension which is beyond time. . . . " This fits well with the practice of Tai Chi (which he never used) in that meditation comes form the Tai Chi exercises and can reach a state of an empty mind (without striving) and it is then that true mediation comes to the individual. So too with spirituality, from that true meditation state, one can achieve a state of spirituality.
As near as I can tell, this is quite different from what you believe to be spirituality in that this is not striving for it, no intent to learn more, but rather an empty mind meditation state from which acceptance of the temporal world is normal and nothing as a connect with the mystical world you describe.
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Post by mouse on Nov 8, 2015 4:14:41 GMT -5
Hi Men an tol, You have completely lost me, you are only talking about the state of the body and mind not of Soul. It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul. It is admirable that conditioning the body and mind by these practices leads to the attainment of good health, but how can that be spiritual? The two are completely different. Soul is a unit of awareness that continues on after the physical body rots in the ground and is no more. How can you possibly equate that with Soul? """It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul.""" I think that non believers can also experience spitituality...have you any proof they do not? and exactly what are agnostics and athiests in your opinion is it any god or is it just the Christian/judaen/Islamic god and the soul being a unit of awareness after the body rots...the proof of this is ?
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 5:09:03 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 5:09:03 GMT -5
Hi Men an tol, You have completely lost me, you are only talking about the state of the body and mind not of Soul. It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul. It is admirable that conditioning the body and mind by these practices leads to the attainment of good health, but how can that be spiritual? The two are completely different. Soul is a unit of awareness that continues on after the physical body rots in the ground and is no more. How can you possibly equate that with Soul? """It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul.""" I think that non believers can also experience spitituality...have you any proof they do not? and exactly what are agnostics and athiests in your opinion is it any god or is it just the Christian/judaen/Islamic god and the soul being a unit of awareness after the body rots...the proof of this is ? Our senses are telling each of us that we are having a certain experience, so why should I believe that you have had the experience that you say you have had, if you find it so difficult to believe the truth of the experience that I say that I have had?
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 5:21:57 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 5:21:57 GMT -5
how can someone have spirituality if they don't believe that spiritual dimensions exist? It really isn't possible!!!
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Post by mouse on Nov 8, 2015 6:27:49 GMT -5
"""It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul.""" I think that non believers can also experience spitituality...have you any proof they do not? and exactly what are agnostics and athiests in your opinion is it any god or is it just the Christian/judaen/Islamic god and the soul being a unit of awareness after the body rots...the proof of this is ? Our senses are telling each of us that we are having a certain experience, so why should I believe that you have had the experience that you say you have had, if you find it so difficult to believe the truth of the experience that I say that I have had? as I say I had two unexplainable experiences on which I base nothing... not religion not some message..and to be honest I don't care if no one believes them or not..its irelevent to my life and existence..i cannot explain them so why should any one else be interested..its really of no importance to my life or well being[only ever mentioned in some sort of exchange of similar] as for your experiences..well you obviously believe them and relate them to some interaction with god...I do not doubt your honesty of beliefe.... I do find it all very far fetched and perhaps too much is read into these things..to fit a theory however you haven't answered my questions I think that non believers can also experience spitituality...have you any proof they do not? and exactly what are agnostics and athiests in your opinion is it any god or is it just the Christian/judaen/Islamic god what of the mystics and spiritual of other ages and eras non Europeans in particular and the soul being a unit of awareness after the body rots...the proof of this is ?
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Post by mouse on Nov 8, 2015 6:34:41 GMT -5
how can someone have spirituality if they don't believe that spiritual dimensions exist? It really isn't possible!!! it would appear so ...the concept of spirituality is not a new phenomina nor only experienced by those who can think in terms of dimensions..its as old as man himself
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Post by men an tol on Nov 8, 2015 10:29:35 GMT -5
"""It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul.""" I think that non believers can also experience spitituality...have you any proof they do not? and exactly what are agnostics and athiests in your opinion is it any god or is it just the Christian/judaen/Islamic god and the soul being a unit of awareness after the body rots...the proof of this is ? Our senses are telling each of us that we are having a certain experience, so why should I believe that you have had the experience that you say you have had, if you find it so difficult to believe the truth of the experience that I say that I have had? Scottish Lassie stated. “ . . . Our senses are telling each of us that we are having a certain experience, so why should I believe that you have had the experience that you say you have had, if you find it so difficult to believe the truth of the experience that I say that I have had? . . . “ There is a difference that you will not recognize, in fact I would say that you cannot recognize this difference even when facing it straight on. You see what I and others have related to you are not simply beliefs of experience, but rather descriptions of things which exist in a reality that you or any other people can touch, taste, smell, see, hear, all by yourself. A reality that people can actually discuss. What you offer is not accessible to others. Even so, you describe the reaction of others to your assertions in a way that doesn't exist, that is, it appears to me that all here accept your belief in what you describe and yet, you apparently expect others to accept your assertions just because you say they are true. That is not a reasonable expectation. More over, much of what you assert runs counter to what is known by others. Spirituality, a personal soul, contact with a God and other dimensions, all of this and more have been written on, believed in, developed philosophies on, by others, long before your religion was ever conceived by Paul Twitchell. There is nothing new about what you offer accept that it is under a new name of a new and rather small sect. Even so, people seem to accept that you believe what you describe. That you want, even expect, others to accept your described experiences as true, as real, is not realistic.
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Jessiealan
xr
Member of the Month, October 2013
Posts: 8,726
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 14:36:13 GMT -5
Post by Jessiealan on Nov 8, 2015 14:36:13 GMT -5
SL, I would never want to question your intelligence. You have a very good vocabulary and can occasionally discuss various subjects - when you choose to.
What comes to mind is that you may be a little naive. To believe your church has come up with new ideas and new truths and new information is incorrect. It appears they have only taken a lot of old ideas and hodge podge claims and given them a little twist here and there. How do they see Ouija Boards and Tarot cards and table rappings?
I would like to know whether the members support them financially but since that may be a sensitive area, I'll leave it for you to consider.
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 19:10:57 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 19:10:57 GMT -5
SL, I would never want to question your intelligence. You have a very good vocabulary and can occasionally discuss various subjects - when you choose to. What comes to mind is that you may be a little naive. To believe your church has come up with new ideas and new truths and new information is incorrect. It appears they have only taken a lot of old ideas and hodge podge claims and given them a little twist here and there. How do they see Ouija Boards and Tarot cards and table rappings? I would like to know whether the members support them financially but since that may be a sensitive area, I'll leave it for you to consider. It is what it is Jessiealan, Souls are here on this plane to learn certain things and like here on earth where people like to play tricks on others, that doesn't necessarily change when they move into another dimension, so some Souls may want to continue along that vein, others ( ghosts) will be more serious and try to help in someway. But the reason that we are here is in reality to learn by experience, and as we learn become more Godlike. There is a reason for that, as at the present time we do not have the whole truth of Creation, but only know in part, just as the Bible says!!! As we learn, we come closer to knowing more of the truth and that is what life is all about. I have been searching for the truth since I was a small child, it seems to be innate. Not all people are interested, I have always been a seeker but others apparently prefer to stay as they are and let others do the work for them I am being helped along by others, who by their experiences, know more than I, and ofcourse by my own experiences. It is always up to the individual as some are eager to know more and others are 'stick in the muds' that's about it.
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 19:27:21 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 19:27:21 GMT -5
Hi Jessiealan, no!!! We do not support them financially, we do however support those who are interested in joining but are unable to be a paying member.
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 20:14:13 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 20:14:13 GMT -5
Hi Men an tol, You have completely lost me, you are only talking about the state of the body and mind not of Soul. It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul. It is admirable that conditioning the body and mind by these practices leads to the attainment of good health, but how can that be spiritual? The two are completely different. Soul is a unit of awareness that continues on after the physical body rots in the ground and is no more. How can you possibly equate that with Soul? """It is Soul that is spiritual and Agnostics and Atheists do not recognize that there is such a thing as Soul.""" I think that non believers can also experience spitituality...have you any proof they do not?? ?? and exactly what are agnostics and athiests in your opinion is it any god or is it just the Christian/judaen/Islamic god and the soul being a unit of awareness after the body rots...the proof of this is ? Hi Mouse,As far as I know there is only one Supreme Creator, but there are authoritive figures in charge of the different dimensions, if you want to call them Gods, be my guest.!!! God is Spirit, and as Soul has been created in God's image, that ofcourse means that we as Soul are also Spirit. We are here in the physical dimension so use the body in order to have experiences in this physical world. The word spiritual must be derived from the word Spirit which in fact pertains to the realm of Spirit where the intelligence that is God, dwells. If anyone has no knowledge of the existence of a Spirit dimension , how on earth can they say that they are spiritual? It is illogical to think that.!!!
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 23:07:21 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 23:07:21 GMT -5
Just as I said Mouse, we are all Soul, but, those who don't believe in God are blocking the possibility of them having any chance of having an experience that would prove that there is something other than this physical plane. You have been given two experiences but have chosen to close your mind as to what it could be. As you call the shots for your own life, so be it.God will not go against your free will choice!!!
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Tai Chi
Nov 8, 2015 23:54:24 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 8, 2015 23:54:24 GMT -5
Hi Men an tol, I am very aware that what ECKists believe goes all the way back in time. It is a religion whether you or anyone else chooses to call it a cult or a sect. Paul Twitchell was given the task of gathering together truths of a given nature, so that under a new name, westernised people would be made aware of these truths.
These truths resurface every time conditions in the physical world become so bad and against what God had designed for us, that we are given the opportunity to see if we can perhaps turn things around by making wiser choices. Afterall it is our choices that produce the conditions that prevail on this Earth plane.
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Post by men an tol on Nov 9, 2015 0:07:25 GMT -5
Just as I said Mouse, we are all Soul, but, those who don't believe in God are blocking the possibility of them having any chance of having an experience that would prove that there is something other than this physical plane. You have been given two experiences but have chosen to close your mind as to what it could be. As you call the shots for your own life, so be it.God will not go against your free will choice!!! Scottish Lassie, as I have said in past postings, every one here ( I believe) accepts that you do believe what you state here and I think that you should accept your beliefs because in your life they are important. You (I hope) will also understand that it doesn't follow that others will then necessarily accept your beliefs and described experiences as true, that you realize that what is true to you does not mean it is true to others unless you can prove it, and, you cannot provide that proof. It is interesting that your description of personal experiences which define your beliefs (and so they should) are being used by you to define our lives, what we believe and what we can (or even should) expect. More over you are using your beliefs to reject or overturn thousands of years of other people who have address the same subjects and arrived at quite different answers relative to the short experiences of about 60 or so years of Eckankar. You make the judgment that experiences that others have had, that subsequently they have closed their minds to them. However you make the point that the experiences that you have had cannot be understood by those without such experiences but don;t you agree that it is then arrogant that you are saying what the experiences of others mean (or don't )when you haven't had them? For example, I too have had experiences. That is twice in my life (once as a teenager and then about the age of 50) I have been in the hospital and been declared dead, and then, after extreme medical procedures I was brought back. I had no experiences similar to what you have described to any degree. Even so, I don't continually try to use them to make a point that 'no one' can relate to because I cannot prove them. We have among us, only the temporal world within which we communicate and make our arguments to one another. While you seem to not be able to enter dialog in the temporal world, others who have espoused beliefs similar to yours have been able to do so for hundreds and even thousands of years.
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