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Tai Chi
Nov 1, 2015 22:59:42 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 1, 2015 22:59:42 GMT -5
Hi men an tol, I have just realised that we are on the wrong thread for what we are talking about. I was in a group that practised Tai Chi. I have tapes on both Tai Chi and Qigong whilst I was listening to one of the tapes, I suddenly found that I was no longer lying down on the couch but standing in the Speaker's presence as she was giving her talk, this can, and does happen to me when I am listening to tapes
Why it happens is anyone's guess, no doubt you will have a wordly answer for it. In my present lifetime, not only have I been a member of different religious denominations, but philosophical ones as well and ofcourse different healing groups. I haven't spent my time twiddling my thumbs.
By the way I do have the right Master!!! as has been proven to me. Mastering the vices which is what causes the conflict in the first place is what happens when you are a member of ECKANKAR. As you progress along the spiritual path the worldly vices fall away one by one.
I am now quite calm and don't have any confrontational problems, as all that is taken care of when you become an ECKist and continue to walk along the spiritual path of life. My spirituality will always be the dominant aspect of the person that I am and that is not likely to change.
By the way Men an tol, you mention that a Tai Chi master remains calm no matter what the circumstance How do you think that they would behave if they were confronted by someone wielding a knife with the intention of killing him?
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Tai Chi
Nov 1, 2015 23:48:39 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 1, 2015 23:48:39 GMT -5
Hi Men an tol, You say that if I was walking down the street, and then I decided to walk through a forest, it would have little or no impact on my religious beliefs, but this is not quite true.
When walking along a street composed of houses or shops, I am not in the least bit inspired. But let me walk through a forest and I am immediateley so inspired that I give thanks for the beauty of God's creation, so there is a vast difference
When I go into a state of contemplation then I am deliberately attuning myself to the Holy Spirit, and during that time, anything is liable to happen and it will always be to my benefit not to my detriment. God loves us all and has provided a way to prove it via contemplation.
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Post by men an tol on Nov 2, 2015 1:17:31 GMT -5
Hi men an tol, I have just realised that we are on the wrong thread for what we are talking about. I was in a group that practised Tai Chi. I have tapes on both Tai Chi and Qigong whilst I was listening to one of the tapes, I suddenly found that I was no longer lying down on the couch but standing in the Speaker's presence as she was giving her talk, this can, and does happen to me when I am listening to tapes Why it happens is anyone's guess, no doubt you will have a wordly answer for it. In my present lifetime, not only have I been a member of different religious denominations, but philosophical ones as well and ofcourse different healing groups. I haven't spent my time twiddling my thumbs. By the way I do have the right Master!!! as has been proven to me. Mastering the vices which is what causes the conflict in the first place is what happens when you are a member of ECKANKAR. As you progress along the spiritual path the worldly vices fall away one by one. I am now quite calm and don't have any confrontational problems, as all that is taken care of when you become an ECKist and continue to walk along the spiritual path of life. My spirituality will always be the dominant aspect of the person that I am and that is not likely to change. By the way Men an tol, you menton that a Tai Chi master remains calm no matter what the circumstance How do you think that they would behave if they were confronted by someone wielding a knife with the intention of killing him? Quite clearly they would not allow it to happen. If that met applying force then they would apply such force to the level required to protect themselves. They would not simply allow the person with the knife to proceed. That is, they would maintain the balance and harmony. If the need was there and the person with the knife did not cease, the one using Tai Chi would then move to Tai Chi Chuan, thereby including fist with balance and harmony. I must wonder, if you have4 been through such learning (i.e. learning Tai Chi) why would you ever have consternation when faced with the use of violence or force. Or maybe you ceased the Tai Chi learning before it became part of you?
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Tai Chi
Nov 2, 2015 3:21:14 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 2, 2015 3:21:14 GMT -5
Hi men an tol, for the same reason that I changed from one denomination to another. I was being led by the Holy Spirit to become an ECKist at a certain time in my life. I keep telling you, I follow my instinct and that means I am paying attention what God wants for me. I have complete trust, my experiences have taught me that God is to be trusted.
So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances. In ECKANKAR, once you believe in neutrallity which is known as the middle road, the possibility of the follower of that belief, finding themselves in a confrontational situation is negligible.
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Tai Chi
Nov 2, 2015 3:57:06 GMT -5
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beth likes this
Post by Scottish Lassie on Nov 2, 2015 3:57:06 GMT -5
Hi men an tol, for the same reason that I changed from one denomination to another. I was being led by the Holy Spirit to become an ECKist at a certain time in my life. I keep telling you, I follow my instinct and that means I am paying attention what God wants for me. I have complete trust, my experiences have taught me that God is to be trusted. So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances. In ECKANKAR, once you believe in neutrallity which is known as the middle road, the possibility of the follower of that belief, finding themselves in a confrontational situation is negligible. Hi Men an tol, Instead of starting a new thread entitled Tai Chi, I should have replied to you on the thread Religion and Spiritualty and left it at that. I'm learning slowly but surely. We are not really going to be discussing Tai Chi unless you want to give out more info on the subject. I am just remembering that I was even part of a yoga class along with my three teenage daughters. We wore our special leotards and had our exercise mats.. The three boys had their oufits as well for self defence classes I have forgotten the name maybe it had something to do with Yoga as well, it's too long ago now.
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Post by mouse on Nov 2, 2015 5:49:39 GMT -5
"""So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances."""
what circumstances
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Post by men an tol on Nov 2, 2015 7:37:06 GMT -5
Hi men an tol, for the same reason that I changed from one denomination to another. I was being led by the Holy Spirit to become an ECKist at a certain time in my life. I keep telling you, I follow my instinct and that means I am paying attention what God wants for me. I have complete trust, my experiences have taught me that God is to be trusted. So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances. In ECKANKAR, once you believe in neutrallity which is known as the middle road, the possibility of the follower of that belief, finding themselves in a confrontational situation is negligible. Hi Men an tol, Instead of starting a new thread entitled Tai Chi, I should have replied to you on the thread Religion and Spiritualty and left it at that. I'm learning slowly but surely. We are not really going to be discussing Tai Chi unless you want to give out more info on the subject. I am just remembering that I was even part of a yoga class along with my three teenage daughters. We wore our special leotards and had our exercise mats.. The three boys had their oufits as well for self defence classes I have forgotten the name maybe it had something to do with Yoga as well, it's too long ago now. Scottish Lassie, I have no need to provide any information on Tai Chi. My comments about was a response to your comments about your problem with violence or force when faced with it. It that context this was merely a suggestion that you might look into it in your own time and in your own way with sources easily available to you. It has nothing to do with religion and is an exercising methodology to reach more personal harmony through balance of mind and body. That some find view this as a better balance between Chi (Qi, or whatever one wishes to call it) and body is neither here nor there. Since you stated that you are experienced in it, I have nothing to add.
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Post by men an tol on Nov 2, 2015 7:51:58 GMT -5
"""So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances.""" what circumstances[/quote Mouse, I'm not sure that you are asking for a real answer or not, but if you are let me know. However, I will offer that saying, " . . . for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances . . . " can give an incorrect perspective. It isn't that it is allowed, but rather that any action from a Tai Chi perspective (master or not) is to reposition for balance and harmony. That is, if someone is enacting violence or force, something is not in harmony or balance and the practitioner or Tai Chi will prefer (through action or nonaction) to refind that balance and harmony. That 'refinding' may include using that force of the other to achieve that end. The other thing to keep in mind is that Tai Chi is not a religion and is the meditation side of the fighting arts. It is an exercise derived primarily from Tai Chi Chuan (soft fist) which is part of an entire range of various fighting styles and teaching orders. But I will make the point that Tai Chi is not a religion and has no God or Gods or anything of equal concepts.
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Post by mouse on Nov 2, 2015 8:36:12 GMT -5
"""So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances.""" what circumstances[/quote Mouse, I'm not sure that you are asking for a real answer or not, but if you are let me know. However, I will offer that saying, " . . . for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances . . . " can give an incorrect perspective. It isn't that it is allowed, but rather that any action from a Tai Chi perspective (master or not) is to reposition for balance and harmony. That is, if someone is enacting violence or force, something is not in harmony or balance and the practitioner or Tai Chi will prefer (through action or nonaction) to refind that balance and harmony. That 'refinding' may include using that force of the other to achieve that end. The other thing to keep in mind is that Tai Chi is not a religion and is the meditation side of the fighting arts. It is an exercise derived primarily from Tai Chi Chuan (soft fist) which is part of an entire range of various fighting styles and teaching orders. But I will make the point that Tai Chi is not a religion and has no God or Gods or anything of equal concepts. yes I fully inderstand Tai Chi is NOT a religion but is to reposition for balance and harmony and yes it was a serious question but talking of balance and harmony...nothing is more violent than nature its self with the animal world coming a close 2nd so isn't the idea of balance and harmony a false construct a man made desire??? and it being the meditation side of fighting styles...leaves one to wonder what harmony and what balance..the winner or the loser
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Post by beth on Nov 2, 2015 8:50:41 GMT -5
It fits very well in the religion topic, though.
Let's keep it here.
(reading along with interest)
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Post by mouse on Nov 2, 2015 8:51:39 GMT -5
Hi men an tol, for the same reason that I changed from one denomination to another. I was being led by the Holy Spirit to become an ECKist at a certain time in my life. I keep telling you, I follow my instinct and that means I am paying attention what God wants for me. I have complete trust, my experiences have taught me that God is to be trusted. So for the Tai Chi Master violence is allowed under certain circumstances. In ECKANKAR, once you believe in neutrallity which is known as the middle road, the possibility of the follower of that belief, finding themselves in a confrontational situation is negligible. I would disagree on can find ones self in a confrontational situation at the drop of a hat..indeed one can be as neutral as it is possible to be and still find ones self in a confrontaltional situation real life and neutrality do not go hand in hand...just as its almost impossible to be a pacsifist in the real world I mentioned the chap who during the last war was a conseientious objector....fine in principle...as long as others are sent to fight and die on your behalf for the safty of your family...and its that point where they became stigmatised as cowards[many were not cowards far from it] luckily those who were consentious objectors were never put to the test in the UK as we were never over run..by the enemy...
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Post by beth on Nov 2, 2015 9:08:16 GMT -5
Moved this thread to Zen, Meditation and Martial Arts topic. Good thread. Carry on.
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Post by men an tol on Nov 2, 2015 10:38:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply Mouse. I apologize for the length of the following but it really is a very shortened version. The Balance and Harmony is that within one's self and there is no idea of winner or loser. The idea is that body and mind work together and having practiced in that working together helps the person in their inner being and in relationship to others and in the world in general. However, Tai Chi is the meditative under pinning of a much large and more in depth set of fighting exercises. Picuture if you will a line and at the far left is Tai Chi Chuan known as the soft fist which is the slowest in moves and least to directly enter force with another. Moving to the right will follow different schools of study of this fighting art with each more energy explosive and aggressive than the last. Underlying all is the meditation of Tai Chi. Most who study the history of these. . . . . fighting arts. . . . . . concede that they are from Chinese culture and in that context are generally considered to have begun about 2,000 years ago after a great flood and plague ran wild over the country. A man who was considered the great physician Hua Tuo went to the heaviest plague areas to try and determine the cause of the epidemic of sickness. He subsequently wrote of his work saying in part, that people are like water, that is, where water flows freely it is clean and healthy, but that water that is stagnant breeds pestilence. In this context the peasants (after the floods) were homeless, with their farms and crops destroyed. Not knowing what to do and hopeless, they sat around all day, and like the stagnant water they developed diseases. In the Chinese way of things Hua Tuo then concluded that a lethargic body affected one's inner life source (an energy known in Chinese as “qi” the spirit breath. Sluggish qi was like sluggish water and was responsible for the plauque. Hua Tuo also notice that while the people were sick, the animals in the same area were healthy and from these observations developed a new kind of exercise he called “wu qin xi.” The frolic of the five animals, that is a workout mimicking the motions of the tiger, the deer, the bear, the moneky, and the crane, and this became the beginning of the health exercise know today as Qigong. Today this is practiced right along with the various forms of Tai Chi. Separately and about in the 1300s there was a new ruling Chinese Dynasty and they initiated a national population relocation program and the Chen Clan was part of this movement. The patriarch was Chen Bu the first recognized as a teacher of Tai Chi. When he moved to Henan province there were bandits who lived in that area and Chen Bu, who was a skilled martial artist protected his family and friends by teaching them some of these skills and this became known as Chen boxing. This is the earliest form of tai Chi Chuan (the soft fist) which contained the feature of explosive release of energy known as fa jing. The next member of the Chen clan as a Tai Chi teacher is Chen Wan-ting. He brought together in one school the many different approaches to Tai Chi as a martial art and added other things ha had learned as a general in in the Ming army. He is credited with a new sensitivity practice method called “tui shou” with the meaning of “pushing hands.” He also integrated the theory of yin-yang into fighting techniques as well as “dao yin (leading and guiding energy) and tu na (expelling and drawing energy. At this point mastery of qi began a major focus for multiple generations. Then in the 19th century the patriarch Chen Chang-xing became the leader and he developed these routines into Chen I and Chen II. The point to all of this to demonstrate that this is a very old form of exercise with many variations and exercises and this comes under the general heading of Tai Chi (hyphen variant) to a large extent it is derived from forms of fighting. Even so, all can be learned with never fighting another person, and Tai Chi by itself is a form exercise meditation. And, of course, Qigong is practiced right along with it. There is no form of religion required for it. yes I fully inderstand Tai Chi is NOT a religion but is to reposition for balance and harmony and yes it was a serious question but talking of balance and harmony...nothing is more violent than nature its self with the animal world coming a close 2nd so isn't the idea of balance and harmony a false construct a man made desire??? and it being the meditation side of fighting styles...leaves one to wonder what harmony and what balance..the winner or the loser
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Post by mouse on Nov 3, 2015 5:32:24 GMT -5
""" He also integrated the theory of yin-yang into fighting techniques""" oooerrr...lets not get into ying and yang [joke]for any one who doesn't know
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Post by mouse on Nov 3, 2015 5:35:02 GMT -5
""" He also integrated the theory of yin-yang into fighting techniques"""
oooerrr...lets not get into ying and yang
seriously though...all interesting
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