Jessiealan
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Post by Jessiealan on Jan 29, 2015 18:56:02 GMT -5
Onward to Capital Punishment discussion! This is a prime example of "why not". State to Pay $6M to Wrongfully Incarcerated Wallingford Man A Wallingford man cleared of rape and murder charges and freed after 21 years behind bars will receive $6 million from the state for the ordeal he endured, officials said Thursday. Kenneth Ireland was freed in 2009 when DNA evidence exonerated him of the rape and murder of Barbara Pelkey in 1989. Ireland was convicted of the crime more than two decades earlier on circumstantial evidence. His $6 million award includes $2.5 million for "loss of liberty and enjoyment of life," $1.5 million for lost earnings," $300,000 for lost reputation, $1.5 million for physical and mental injuries and $200,000 for his expenses, according to a memorandum of decision from the Office of the Claims Commissioner. Ireland was imprisoned from the age of 18 to 39, serving out nearly half a 50-year prison sentence, despite a lack of physical evidence connecting him to the crime. He spent five years behind bars at Somers Prison, a maximum security facility, where he was exposed to "gang violence and administrative segregation," the memorandum said. In 2000, Ireland was transferred to Wallens Ridge State Prison in Virginia, another maximum security facility "notorious for its poor treatment of inmates," according to the memorandum. He was later moved to the Macdougall-Walker correctional facility in Suffield, where Ireland spent 21 hours per day in his cell, the document says. He was considered a "high security risk" and was targeted by other inmates. "Mr. Ireland was wrongfully convicted and was labeled a murderer and sex offender and was forced to spend a long portion of his life in maximum security prisons, where he experienced twenty one years of violence, sleepless nights and the constant fear and hopelessness that he would die in prison as an innocent man," the state memo explained. The Connecticut Innocence Project began probing the case in 2007. Ireland was freed two years later, and the real criminal was convicted in March 2012, according to the memorandum. After his release, Ireland detailed the suffering he endured for more than two decades in prison serving time for a crime he didn't commit. "Not one moment in my entire 21 years did I not have fear," Ireland explained. "You'd look up and there'd be 30 inmates, and everyone would have a sharpened piece of steel and they would just start stabbing other inmates." His attorneys had originally asked the state for between $5.4 and $8 million for Ireland's wrongful incarceration. The state claims commissioner announced Thursday that Ireland will receive $6 million from the state. Gov. Dannel Malloy called Ireland "a man of extraordinary character who endured the unimaginable pain of two decades of wrongful incarceration, and yet is not only without bitterness, but is incredibly thoughtful, insightful and committed to public safety and service." "Nothing could ever replace the two decades of life as a free man that were wrongfully taken away from him, separated from his family and friends," Malloy said in a statement Thursday. www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/State-to-Pay-6M-to-Wrongfully-Incarcerated-Wallingford-Man-290232841.html
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josephdphillips
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January 2015 Member of the Month
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 29, 2015 19:26:09 GMT -5
Onward to Capital Punishment discussion! This is a prime example of "why not". Only to those who are opposed to capital punishment anyway. If this guy had been executed, the taxpayers would have saved $6 million.
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Post by beth on Jan 29, 2015 20:19:41 GMT -5
But our civilization/culture is based to a large extent on justice and decency. That would have accomplished neither. What if he was your brother or friend .. would you hold the same opinion?
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josephdphillips
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 29, 2015 20:33:53 GMT -5
But our civilization/culture is based to a large extent on justice and decency. That would have accomplished neither. What if he was your brother or friend .. would you hold the same opinion? I would, as long as he had adequate legal representation. In California, the state trips over itself finding qualified attorneys for capital defendants. It finds them qualified attorneys for their appeal. That's a lot more than they deserve. Justice and decency are vague and subjective. The purpose of punishment is retribution. Those convicted of murder can only expect so much "decency" from the law-abiding. My brother feels the same about capital punishment as I. We both accept an error rate greater than zero. We accept the state is obligated to act in good faith. In my state, it certainly does. As stated before, I would not grant compensation to the allegedly "exonerated."
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Post by beth on Jan 29, 2015 22:13:11 GMT -5
Ireland's conviction was in 1989. Was California all that painstaking back then? Perhaps Connecticut LE and justice systems were not all that diligent. After all, they did keep the forensics information and surely knew the DNA was not connected to this man. He might be in prison still if the Innocence Project hadn't taken up his cause in 2007. They were able to apprehend, try and convict the guilty party, so it isn't like justice has been cheated in any way.
It looks as if he got a very bad deal. As odds go, it's a sure thing he isn't the only one .. we see prisoners, wrongly convicted for murder, freed periodically. To me, that's proof the system has a rather bumpy track record. Doing away with the death penalty for all but those convicted of the most heinous crimes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, would be a good way to do better.
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Post by mouse on Jan 30, 2015 4:44:09 GMT -5
""" Doing away with the death penalty for all but those convicted of the most heinous crimes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, would be a good way to do better."""
am pro DP but would want proof beyond a shadow of doubt...and it can be had...especially in the worst cases in the UK for example..the moors murders..the wests and others about whom there is absolutely no doubt what so ever
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josephdphillips
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January 2015 Member of the Month
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 30, 2015 6:49:41 GMT -5
Ireland's conviction was in 1989. Was California all that painstaking back then? Perhaps Connecticut LE and justice systems were not all that diligent. After all, they did keep the forensics information and surely knew the DNA was not connected to this man. He might be in prison still if the Innocence Project hadn't taken up his cause in 2007. They were able to apprehend, try and convict the guilty party, so it isn't like justice has been cheated in any way. It looks as if he got a very bad deal. As odds go, it's a sure thing he isn't the only one .. we see prisoners, wrongly convicted for murder, freed periodically. To me, that's proof the system has a rather bumpy track record. Doing away with the death penalty for all but those convicted of the most heinous crimes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, would be a good way to do better. The $6 million is taken away from better law enforcement and from more thorough investigations. There is no such thing as a doubtless conviction. There never will be, nor should there be. Justice is a human enterprise. You keep forgetting so-called exculpatory evidence could also be 100 percent wrong, or less than 100 percent assured. It all requires human interpretation, which is subject to human error. The death penalty should apply to all murders, automatically. That's the solution.
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Post by mouse on Jan 30, 2015 7:50:03 GMT -5
Ireland's conviction was in 1989. Was California all that painstaking back then? Perhaps Connecticut LE and justice systems were not all that diligent. After all, they did keep the forensics information and surely knew the DNA was not connected to this man. He might be in prison still if the Innocence Project hadn't taken up his cause in 2007. They were able to apprehend, try and convict the guilty party, so it isn't like justice has been cheated in any way. It looks as if he got a very bad deal. As odds go, it's a sure thing he isn't the only one .. we see prisoners, wrongly convicted for murder, freed periodically. To me, that's proof the system has a rather bumpy track record. Doing away with the death penalty for all but those convicted of the most heinous crimes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, would be a good way to do better. The $6 million is taken away from better law enforcement and from more thorough investigations. There is no such thing as a doubtless conviction. There never will be, nor should there be. Justice is a human enterprise. You keep forgetting so-called exculpatory evidence could also be 100 percent wrong, or less than 100 percent assured. It all requires human interpretation, which is subject to human error. The death penalty should apply to all murders, automatically. That's the solution. """""There is no such thing as a doubtless conviction. There never will be, nor should there be. Justice is a human enterprise."" am I getting this correctly...there is no such thing as a conviction proved beyond ALL doubt with absolutely no chance of error??? """The death penalty should apply to all murders, automatically """" there are huge differences in murders..all should be judged upon seperately
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josephdphillips
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 30, 2015 7:57:30 GMT -5
am I getting this correctly...there is no such thing as a conviction proved beyond ALL doubt with absolutely no chance of error??? Correct. there are huge differences in murders..all should be judged upon seperately Ridiculous. Every murder victim is harmed exactly the same. Thus every murderer commits the exact same crime. What you're really saying is that some murder victims are more important, or are worth more, than others.
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Post by jesuschrist on Jan 30, 2015 8:09:47 GMT -5
am I getting this correctly...there is no such thing as a conviction proved beyond ALL doubt with absolutely no chance of error??? Correct. there are huge differences in murders..all should be judged upon seperately Ridiculous. Every murder victim is harmed exactly the same. Thus every murderer commits the exact same crime. What you're really saying is that some murder victims are more important, or are worth more, than others. Not all of us are equally dead though when murdered ..i am a case in point but yes murder requires the victim to be equally dead.
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Post by mouse on Jan 30, 2015 8:42:05 GMT -5
""""Ridiculous. Every murder victim is harmed exactly the same. Thus every murderer commits the exact same crime"""every murder victim is not harmed the same way...the end result of death is the the same but not the journey to that death and no I am not saying that some victims are worth more than others at all...I am saying that some murders are worse than others in reaching the point of death some one helping a severly ill person in dire pain to end their life is a very different scenario than some who tortures a person for hours or days before death occursthe end result may be the same...but the method and inclination are vastly different
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josephdphillips
Global Facilitator
January 2015 Member of the Month
Posts: 3,494
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 30, 2015 9:01:06 GMT -5
""""Ridiculous. Every murder victim is harmed exactly the same. Thus every murderer commits the exact same crime"""every murder victim is not harmed the same way...the end result of death is the the same but not the journey to that death and no I am not saying that some victims are worth more than others at all...I am saying that some murders are worse than others in reaching the point of death some one helping a severly ill person in dire pain to end their life is a very different scenario than some who tortures a person for hours or days before death occursthe end result may be the same...but the method and inclination are vastly different Isn't torture punished as a separate crime, where you live? It is here in California. Justice for murder victims shouldn't depend on how they were killed.
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Post by patacake58 on Jan 30, 2015 9:05:13 GMT -5
Ireland's conviction was in 1989. Was California all that painstaking back then? Perhaps Connecticut LE and justice systems were not all that diligent. After all, they did keep the forensics information and surely knew the DNA was not connected to this man. He might be in prison still if the Innocence Project hadn't taken up his cause in 2007. They were able to apprehend, try and convict the guilty party, so it isn't like justice has been cheated in any way. It looks as if he got a very bad deal. As odds go, it's a sure thing he isn't the only one .. we see prisoners, wrongly convicted for murder, freed periodically. To me, that's proof the system has a rather bumpy track record. Doing away with the death penalty for all but those convicted of the most heinous crimes, beyond the shadow of a doubt, would be a good way to do better. The $6 million is taken away from better law enforcement and from more thorough investigations. No death penalty = no $6 million compensation payouts. It's a win win situation for everyone.
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josephdphillips
Global Facilitator
January 2015 Member of the Month
Posts: 3,494
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 30, 2015 9:14:09 GMT -5
No death penalty = no $6 million compensation payouts. It's a win win situation for everyone. Actually, the reverse is true. The executed can't sue. Neither can their relatives. I would amend the state constitution to prevent the non-executed from suing, as well.
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Post by mouse on Jan 30, 2015 9:14:42 GMT -5
""""Ridiculous. Every murder victim is harmed exactly the same. Thus every murderer commits the exact same crime"""every murder victim is not harmed the same way...the end result of death is the the same but not the journey to that death and no I am not saying that some victims are worth more than others at all...I am saying that some murders are worse than others in reaching the point of death some one helping a severly ill person in dire pain to end their life is a very different scenario than some who tortures a person for hours or days before death occursthe end result may be the same...but the method and inclination are vastly different Isn't torture punished as a separate crime, where you live? It is here in California. Justice for murder victims shouldn't depend on how they were killed. but punishment for murders should depend on the reasons and the method... I doubt if toture is judged a separate crime if the intent and method of torture leads to death..i cannot recall any distinction during trials of some of our murdering toturers
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