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Post by fretslider on Jul 13, 2012 15:38:47 GMT -5
Your president seems reluctant to reduce the abortion rate, nonetheless. Hi Fretslider, The best way to reduce the abortion rate, is education. ALL of presidents in the past 30 yeaers have stressed on education which indirecly is an effort to reduce abortions. The laws banning and/or restrictions of abortions will never reduce the rates today. Ak If, and it's a very big if, even if you could get an education system that educated every child to a certain standard the fact remains that some kids just aren't interested in being educated. Your president could overrule and make the drug available, but he won't. In that sense he really does show that the phenomenon of Barak Obama is nothing more than a holding pattern.
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Post by fretslider on Jul 13, 2012 15:46:18 GMT -5
Back on the subject of executions, Ian Hislop, editor of the most excellent satirical magazine 'Private Eye', puts it rather well, and it helps if you remember that there are no miscarriages of justice on death row.
BTW The reference to terrorism cases relates to the Provisional IRA
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Post by akamai on Jul 13, 2012 17:52:39 GMT -5
Back on the subject of executions, Ian Hislop, editor of the most excellent satirical magazine 'Private Eye', puts it rather well, and it helps if you remember that there are no miscarriages of justice on death row. BTW The reference to terrorism cases relates to the Provisional IRA Well, in every position in justice, there are miscarriages. However, it is the reversed proportions. The lesser the punishment, the more miscarriages. AK
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Post by fretslider on Jul 14, 2012 3:07:49 GMT -5
Back on the subject of executions, Ian Hislop, editor of the most excellent satirical magazine 'Private Eye', puts it rather well, and it helps if you remember that there are no miscarriages of justice on death row. BTW The reference to terrorism cases relates to the Provisional IRA Well, in every position in justice, there are miscarriages. However, it is the reversed proportions. The lesser the punishment, the more miscarriages. AK Is that a defence of the DP?
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Post by thunder on Jul 14, 2012 9:37:05 GMT -5
Consider that we're close to an election, and committees behind the scenes begin making recommendations. I wouldn't think this was the president's idea. Your president seems reluctant to reduce the abortion rate, nonetheless. No one, even pro-choice advocates, wakes up in the morning and asks themselves: 'How can I make it so there are more abortions?" The President, as well as many others, supports a woman's right to choose. There is no such thing... no such movement... no such organization, that supports, advocates, or encourages abortion. To do nothing about reducing the abortion rate (non-activity) is very different from those who actively block access to women's health clinics, or attempt to murder the doctors who work there.
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Post by akamai on Jul 14, 2012 10:09:03 GMT -5
Well, in every position in justice, there are miscarriages. However, it is the reversed proportions. The lesser the punishment, the more miscarriages. AK Is that a defence of the DP? Yes, in a sense. The problem when it comes to the never proven but possible wrongful execution, is the wrongful conviction, which is far more common in a non-capital punishment case. The problem is NOT the punishment, but the court system that issues the punishment. You do not abolish a rightful punishment because of an infrequent wrongful application of the law. IF that were the case, then ALL punishments including fines should be abolished. Ak
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Post by akamai on Jul 14, 2012 10:14:19 GMT -5
Your president seems reluctant to reduce the abortion rate, nonetheless. No one, even pro-choice advocates, wakes up in the morning and asks themselves: 'How can I make it so there are more abortions?" The President, as well as many others, supports a woman's right to choose. There is no such thing... no such movement... no such organization, that supports, advocates, or encourages abortion. To do nothing about reducing the abortion rate (non-activity) is very different from those who actively block access to women's health clinics, or attempt to murder the doctors who work there. True, that NO ONE really wants an abortion. What the woman getting an abortion DOESN'T want is her pregnancy. If she can avoid getting pregnant, then the abortion would never take place. In the abortion issue, the fact that people are not taking the necessary precautions to avoid pregnancy makes the issue. There are simply too many of them. Ak
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Post by justoled on Jul 18, 2012 20:18:23 GMT -5
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Post by thunder on Jul 18, 2012 22:25:42 GMT -5
Twenty-five minutes? Death usually occurs within seven minutes by the usual method (three drugs) of lethal injection. Sounds like a "cruel and unusual punishment" case to me.
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Post by markindurham on Jul 18, 2012 23:35:34 GMT -5
Don't mess with Texas
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Post by markindurham on Jul 18, 2012 23:43:52 GMT -5
Twenty-five minutes? Death usually occurs within seven minutes by the usual method (three drugs) of lethal injection. Sounds like a "cruel and unusual punishment" case to me. Ah, but it's quite possible that they were erring on the side of caution before formally pronouncing death - it would be a bit embarrassing to go & check, but find out more 'juice' was needed to finish the job. Wasn't it Ethel Rosenberg whose electrocution needed repeating? As for 'cruel & unusual', I doubt it. This is exactly the same drug used to euthanise domestic animals, and having had to have a couple of pets 'put to sleep' in recent years, they simply fell asleep and slipped away as I held them gently whilst the barbiturate did its job. Believe me, there was no distress discerned in the animal - unlike the emotions of my wife & myself...
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Post by thunder on Jul 19, 2012 7:50:42 GMT -5
Twenty-five minutes? Death usually occurs within seven minutes by the usual method (three drugs) of lethal injection. Sounds like a "cruel and unusual punishment" case to me. Ah, but it's quite possible that they were erring on the side of caution before formally pronouncing death - it would be a bit embarrassing to go & check, but find out more 'juice' was needed to finish the job. Wasn't it Ethel Rosenberg whose electrocution needed repeating? As for 'cruel & unusual', I doubt it. This is exactly the same drug used to euthanise domestic animals, and having had to have a couple of pets 'put to sleep' in recent years, they simply fell asleep and slipped away as I held them gently whilst the barbiturate did its job. Believe me, there was no distress discerned in the animal - unlike the emotions of my wife & myself... I'm familiar with both the drug, and the trip to the vet. How much do you want to bet that there won't be any Eighth Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment) cases"? www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/07/18/UN-expert-Ga-Texas-executions-illegal/UPI-64501342593000/www.sacbee.com/2012/07/13/4629896/la-judge-hears-testimony-one-drug.htmlTexas is the nation's most active death penalty state. Since 1976, Texas has performed the highest number of executions (483) with the next next closest being Virginia (109). This should make it even easier for those good old boys in Texas. We're the only "civilized" country still exicuting our own people. www.abpnews.com/blog/public-policy/should-we-abolish-the-death-penalty-2012-07-19/"The worldwide trend is away from the death penalty. In 2000, 31 countries carried out an execution. In 2011, 20 countries did. According to Mr. Ban, about 150 countries have either abolished the death penalty or are no longer practicing it. But almost a third of the world’s nations still have the death penalty. China executes hundreds if not thousands of people a year, more than all other countries combined. In 2011 the countries other than China with the most executions were Iran (360), Saudi Arabia (82), Iraq (68), and the United States (43). The United States is the only G-8 country with the death penalty. In North America and Europe only one other country, Belarus, has the death penalty. However, the trend in the United States is away from the death penalty. In 2000, 38 states had the death penalty. In 2012, 34 states have it. In 2000, 224 persons were sentenced to death in the United States. In 2011, 78 persons were sentenced to death. In 2000, 85 persons were executed in the United States. In 2011, 43 persons were executed."www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts"Capital punishment does not work. There is a wealth of mounting evidence that proves this fact. The death penalty, both in the U.S. and around the world, is discriminatory and is used disproportionately against the poor, minorities and members of racial, ethnic and religious communities. Since humans are fallible, the risk of executing the innocent can never be eliminated. Furthermore, the astronomical costs associated with putting a person on death row – including criminal investigations, lengthy trials and appeals – are leading many states to re-evaluate and re-consider having this flawed and unjust system on the books."Read away... unless your mind is already made up.
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Post by markindurham on Jul 19, 2012 9:18:54 GMT -5
Ah, but it's quite possible that they were erring on the side of caution before formally pronouncing death - it would be a bit embarrassing to go & check, but find out more 'juice' was needed to finish the job. Wasn't it Ethel Rosenberg whose electrocution needed repeating? As for 'cruel & unusual', I doubt it. This is exactly the same drug used to euthanise domestic animals, and having had to have a couple of pets 'put to sleep' in recent years, they simply fell asleep and slipped away as I held them gently whilst the barbiturate did its job. Believe me, there was no distress discerned in the animal - unlike the emotions of my wife & myself... I'm familiar with both the drug, and the trip to the vet. How much do you want to bet that there won't be any Eighth Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment) cases"? www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/07/18/UN-expert-Ga-Texas-executions-illegal/UPI-64501342593000/www.sacbee.com/2012/07/13/4629896/la-judge-hears-testimony-one-drug.htmlTexas is the nation's most active death penalty state. Since 1976, Texas has performed the highest number of executions (483) with the next next closest being Virginia (109). This should make it even easier for those good old boys in Texas. We're the only "civilized" country still exicuting our own people. www.abpnews.com/blog/public-policy/should-we-abolish-the-death-penalty-2012-07-19/"The worldwide trend is away from the death penalty. In 2000, 31 countries carried out an execution. In 2011, 20 countries did. According to Mr. Ban, about 150 countries have either abolished the death penalty or are no longer practicing it. But almost a third of the world’s nations still have the death penalty. China executes hundreds if not thousands of people a year, more than all other countries combined. In 2011 the countries other than China with the most executions were Iran (360), Saudi Arabia (82), Iraq (68), and the United States (43). The United States is the only G-8 country with the death penalty. In North America and Europe only one other country, Belarus, has the death penalty. However, the trend in the United States is away from the death penalty. In 2000, 38 states had the death penalty. In 2012, 34 states have it. In 2000, 224 persons were sentenced to death in the United States. In 2011, 78 persons were sentenced to death. In 2000, 85 persons were executed in the United States. In 2011, 43 persons were executed."www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts"Capital punishment does not work. There is a wealth of mounting evidence that proves this fact. The death penalty, both in the U.S. and around the world, is discriminatory and is used disproportionately against the poor, minorities and members of racial, ethnic and religious communities. Since humans are fallible, the risk of executing the innocent can never be eliminated. Furthermore, the astronomical costs associated with putting a person on death row – including criminal investigations, lengthy trials and appeals – are leading many states to re-evaluate and re-consider having this flawed and unjust system on the books."Read away... unless your mind is already made up. Thank you for the links. I have no problem with executing murderers where there is absolutely no doubt as to their guilt. However, I did the tour of Williamsburg a few years ago - if you were sentenced to death you got 10 days to put your affairs in order, then you swung. Lesson from history there?
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Post by thunder on Jul 19, 2012 9:37:17 GMT -5
Thank you for the links. I have no problem with executing murderers where there is absolutely no doubt as to their guilt. However, I did the tour of Williamsburg a few years ago - if you were sentenced to death you got 10 days to put your affairs in order, then you swung. Lesson from history there? What concerns me is, with falsified information, or mistaken identity on the part of witnesses, you don't always know. There've been cases where people had a solid alibi, but still were convicted.
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Post by akamai on Jul 19, 2012 10:04:05 GMT -5
Thank you for the links. I have no problem with executing murderers where there is absolutely no doubt as to their guilt. However, I did the tour of Williamsburg a few years ago - if you were sentenced to death you got 10 days to put your affairs in order, then you swung. Lesson from history there? What concerns me is, with falsified information, or mistaken identity on the part of witnesses, you don't always know. There've been cases where people had a solid alibi, but still were convicted. I agree with you on the possible wrongful convictions. However, the problem again, is NOT the punishments, but the wrongful conviction to begin with. It bothers me a LOT when we convict the wrong person and incarcerate him for years like Bruce Lisker. www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-6965418.htmlAs we cannot give an executed man his life back, we cannot give a wrongfully incarcerated man the years we took away from him back also. I always opposed a death sentence when the conviction is made on testimony only, eye witness accounts only, or circumstantial evidence only, but even a life sentence is a travesty, and it isn't much less a travesty than a wrongful execution. While it is likely that an innocent could have been executed but never proven, it is even more likely that an innocent died while being incarcerated. BOTH are travesties. Ak
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