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Post by mouse on Jan 21, 2015 4:13:03 GMT -5
Beth wrote """"I find that a very annoying, unpleasant concept. As if .. God "guides" us and "helps" us make our decisions, etc.. To me, that is not free will."""" its not only an annoying and unpleasant concept it is a very dangerous concept for human beings..a recipe and an excuse for doing nothing to be exploited and manipulated by leaders and politos and even people them selves for doing absolutely nothing..wonderful social control ripe for exploitation..and my word how its been exploited one good example was the Tsunami thought by many to have been an act of God..Inshallah[as God wills]and it was God made retribution brought upon heads for an unbelieving sinful peoples...yet we know there is a perfectly natural explanation.. the attitude has been death to the Arab and north African and parts of the Asian world at large...breeding an aceptence of what ever comes their way...regardless of the real reasoning and that attitude is still around in the western world to a degree..when death takes a child its often said..it was too good for this life has gone to live with the angels etc etc ...its a coping mechanism the plagues of Egypt were seen as God flexing his muscle against a sinful population....the reality as we now know was natural disaster upon natural disaster ...one disaster causing yet another disaster
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 21, 2015 6:50:49 GMT -5
Being in ECKANKAR gives you the insight that God always knows best.. We may ask for certain things but it is not necessarily beneficial for our spiritual growth, so we don't always get what we have asked for, though sometimes we will receive it because we need to realise something. We are all here to learn with the help of the Holy Spirit. Didn't you know? Chris, I think you're doing a certain amount of ratonalizing as you go. I know you won't agree but you probably know me well enough by now to know I don't mean it as an insult .. just a difference of opinions. Rationalization isn't a bad thing, and it does help shape some of our opinions. I do think we have free will and are capable of thinking for ourselves without an intermediary. Do you know The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám? This is going to be a short paraphrase because I don't know it by memory and don't have time to look it up. A part of it goes something like this ... " ..."We are no other than a moving row of secret shadow shapes that come and go 'round a sun illuminated lantern held at midnight by the Master of the show. But, separate pieces of a game he plays upon his checker board of nights and days ... hither and thither moves and checks and slays and one by one, back in the closet lays. And, that inverted bowl we call the sky, which, under, crawling cooped we live and die .. lift not your arms to it for help, for it moves as impotently as you or I". I find that a very annoying, unpleasant concept. As if .. God "guides" us and "helps" us make our decisions, etc.. To me, that is not free will. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I know some new age concepts believe we have spiritual guides who give us extra insight and help us along the way. But, at this point in life, I am probably responsible for my own mistakes and corrections. No arrogance there ... just reality as I know it. Best We are all responsible for our actions Beth, but what gave you the idea that I might think you were being insulting? That's the furthest thing from my mind. We are all just airing our views. We do have free will Beth, that hasn't changed. But with a little bit of help, life is so much easier.I believe in Karma so I don't want to rack up bad Karma if I can help it. The Holy Spirit is an intelligence that is prepared to help us if needed. I am a person who always wants to do the right thing so I don't mind getting help to enable this to happen. Don't you ever get good advice from your husband or perhaps your parents or a good friend whom you trust? God is the one who put the laws in place and we have been given the freedom of choice as to whether to obey or disobey. I prefer to get my advice from the Holy Spirit, nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 21, 2015 9:16:06 GMT -5
the proper thing to do is to hope for the best, but expect the worst, so that, no matter what happens, you won't be disappointed Why should a person expect the worst? If you are preparing yourself to expect the worst, then that is probably what you will get. I put my trust in God, that whatever is given to me, will be for my ultimate good. Whilst waiting in town for the bus, I happened to see a dress in the shop across the road, liked what I saw, and thought, " I wish I had the money to buy it." it was a passing thought, but when my birthday came around, my daughter presented me with the very same dress. How is that for service? As the passing thought was immediately forgotten, the fact that I liked that dress was not mentioned to anyone. I have even told my children that the only presents that I am interested in, are the gifts of the Spirit, and guess what! I have received them also. God Is good to me. life is not fair. you will NEVER get everything you want. in order to not be disappointed, you hope for that, but don't expect it. it only hurts you to aspire to something that will NEVER happen. i detest the homos on modern family, but, i watch the show because of sofia vergara. i hope to someday screw her, but, i don't expect that i ever will. so, when it never happens, i won't be totally disappointed, only a little
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Post by beth on Jan 21, 2015 12:24:52 GMT -5
Why should a person expect the worst? If you are preparing yourself to expect the worst, then that is probably what you will get. I put my trust in God, that whatever is given to me, will be for my ultimate good. Whilst waiting in town for the bus, I happened to see a dress in the shop across the road, liked what I saw, and thought, " I wish I had the money to buy it." it was a passing thought, but when my birthday came around, my daughter presented me with the very same dress. How is that for service? As the passing thought was immediately forgotten, the fact that I liked that dress was not mentioned to anyone. I have even told my children that the only presents that I am interested in, are the gifts of the Spirit, and guess what! I have received them also. God Is good to me. life is not fair. you will NEVER get everything you want. in order to not be disappointed, you hope for that, but don't expect it. it only hurts you to aspire to something that will NEVER happen. i detest the homos on modern family, but, i watch the show because of sofia vergara. i hope to someday screw her, but, i don't expect that i ever will. so, when it never happens, i won't be totally disappointed, only a little lol Jim .. sit down and strap in ... the lovely Sophia is engaged to be married in real life. The wedding is set for this summer. Time is short. I rarely watch TV and yet, I love every one on Modern family ... even the Dumphy daughters who can be especially annoying. Ed O'Neill is my favorite ... better in this than as Al Bundy and that's saying a lot. Two great shows in 2014 ... the 2-parter, The Wedding, and this past October's Halloween show. LOL good. Cam and Mitchell are married (with child) and not in the least interested in you ... relax. Mouse, you photo is gorgeous! Thanks for sharing it. Another bright, sunshiny day here. Chilly but not cold.
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Post by beth on Jan 21, 2015 12:31:31 GMT -5
Chris, I think you're doing a certain amount of ratonalizing as you go. I know you won't agree but you probably know me well enough by now to know I don't mean it as an insult .. just a difference of opinions. Rationalization isn't a bad thing, and it does help shape some of our opinions. I do think we have free will and are capable of thinking for ourselves without an intermediary. Do you know The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám? This is going to be a short paraphrase because I don't know it by memory and don't have time to look it up. A part of it goes something like this ... " ..."We are no other than a moving row of secret shadow shapes that come and go 'round a sun illuminated lantern held at midnight by the Master of the show. But, separate pieces of a game he plays upon his checker board of nights and days ... hither and thither moves and checks and slays and one by one, back in the closet lays. And, that inverted bowl we call the sky, which, under, crawling cooped we live and die .. lift not your arms to it for help, for it moves as impotently as you or I". I find that a very annoying, unpleasant concept. As if .. God "guides" us and "helps" us make our decisions, etc.. To me, that is not free will. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I know some new age concepts believe we have spiritual guides who give us extra insight and help us along the way. But, at this point in life, I am probably responsible for my own mistakes and corrections. No arrogance there ... just reality as I know it. Best We are all responsible for our actions Beth, but what gave you the idea that I might think you were being insulting? That's the furthest thing from my mind. We are all just airing our views. We do have free will Beth, that hasn't changed. But with a little bit of help, life is so much easier.I believe in Karma so I don't want to rack up bad Karma if I can help it. The Holy Spirit is an intelligence that is prepared to help us if needed. I am a person who always wants to do the right thing so I don't mind getting help to enable this to happen. Don't you ever get good advice from your husband or perhaps your parents or a good friend whom you trust? God is the one who put the laws in place and we have been given the freedom of choice as to whether to obey or disobey. I prefer to get my advice from the Holy Spirit, nothing wrong with that as far as I can see. This is definitely time to agree to disagree. Best wishes in your pursuit of what's best for you, chris.
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Post by annaj26 on Jan 21, 2015 13:24:10 GMT -5
But, do you realize that in most of these posts you are patting yourself on the back? Just wondered. Kind of ironic. I am just stating facts, if you perceive it that way, then that is your problem. Apparently if you were the one that was making these statements you would consciously be patting yourself on the back. I am impervious to being affected by flattery or insults, To God, give the Glory, all that I am, whatever that may be, is thanks to God. It wasn't meant as flattery or insult or anything personal. Just a comment. Now, I can add that you come across as patronizing and defensive. Just my own opinion.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 21, 2015 15:18:50 GMT -5
Why should a person expect the worst? If you are preparing yourself to expect the worst, then that is probably what you will get. I put my trust in God, that whatever is given to me, will be for my ultimate good. Whilst waiting in town for the bus, I happened to see a dress in the shop across the road, liked what I saw, and thought, " I wish I had the money to buy it." it was a passing thought, but when my birthday came around, my daughter presented me with the very same dress. How is that for service? As the passing thought was immediately forgotten, the fact that I liked that dress was not mentioned to anyone. I have even told my children that the only presents that I am interested in, are the gifts of the Spirit, and guess what! I have received them also. God Is good to me. i would say that the above is that your daughter knows you well..well enough to know the dress was what you would enjoy as a birthday present and i have had very similar experiences..son 1 was in the army and yet if i ever felt i needed him he arrived home from where ever he had been posted..just would walk through the door..it got so that my friends and neighbours actually commented on it..because it didn't just happen once it happened a number of times..over the years he was in the forces[and its not that i am closer to him than the others or that he is a mummys boy or that he had been called for] but it became a standing joke Hi Mouse, There is such a thing as thought transferrance, and it appears that you are both on the same wavelength. But when all is said and done, we were created, so we have to give God the credit.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 21, 2015 15:40:54 GMT -5
I am just stating facts, if you perceive it that way, then that is your problem. Apparently if you were the one that was making these statements you would consciously be patting yourself on the back. I am impervious to being affected by flattery or insults, To God, give the Glory, all that I am, whatever that may be, is thanks to God. It wasn't meant as flattery or insult or anything personal. Just a comment. Now, I can add that you come across as patronizing and defensive. Just my own opinion. You are certainly entitlled to your opinion, that, we agree on, but I can say in all honesty that you are mistaken in thinking that I am patronizing or defensive, but if that is how you see me, there is nothing I can do about that. All I am doing is explaining how I see life.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 21, 2015 15:58:48 GMT -5
Why should a person expect the worst? If you are preparing yourself to expect the worst, then that is probably what you will get. I put my trust in God, that whatever is given to me, will be for my ultimate good. Whilst waiting in town for the bus, I happened to see a dress in the shop across the road, liked what I saw, and thought, " I wish I had the money to buy it." it was a passing thought, but when my birthday came around, my daughter presented me with the very same dress. How is that for service? As the passing thought was immediately forgotten, the fact that I liked that dress was not mentioned to anyone. I have even told my children that the only presents that I am interested in, are the gifts of the Spirit, and guess what! I have received them also. God Is good to me. life is not fair. you will NEVER get everything you want. in order to not be disappointed, you hope for that, but don't expect it. it only hurts you to aspire to something that will NEVER happen. i detest the homos on modern family, but, i watch the show because of sofia vergara. i hope to someday screw her, but, i don't expect that i ever will. so, when it never happens, i won't be totally disappointed, only a little Hi Iamjumbo, you don't seem to realise that by expecting that the worst might happen you are actually negating your wish, We have to keep the positive thought in our minds in order for it to happen, the minute you express doubt, you have cancelled any chance that you might have had.
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Post by mouse on Jan 22, 2015 3:43:28 GMT -5
i would say that the above is that your daughter knows you well..well enough to know the dress was what you would enjoy as a birthday present and i have had very similar experiences..son 1 was in the army and yet if i ever felt i needed him he arrived home from where ever he had been posted..just would walk through the door..it got so that my friends and neighbours actually commented on it..because it didn't just happen once it happened a number of times..over the years he was in the forces[and its not that i am closer to him than the others or that he is a mummys boy or that he had been called for] but it became a standing joke Hi Mouse, There is such a thing as thought transferrance, and it appears that you are both on the same wavelength. But when all is said and done, we were created, so we have to give God the credit. absolutely agree there is thought transference...how ever I don't think the British army would consider that an excuse for son 1 to come from far flung places.. as for being created in deed we are but usually from random acts unless our parents actually planned us and I know for a fact I wasn't planned
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 22, 2015 7:40:20 GMT -5
life is not fair. you will NEVER get everything you want. in order to not be disappointed, you hope for that, but don't expect it. it only hurts you to aspire to something that will NEVER happen. i detest the homos on modern family, but, i watch the show because of sofia vergara. i hope to someday screw her, but, i don't expect that i ever will. so, when it never happens, i won't be totally disappointed, only a little lol Jim .. sit down and strap in ... the lovely Sophia is engaged to be married in real life. The wedding is set for this summer. Time is short. I rarely watch TV and yet, I love every one on Modern family ... even the Dumphy daughters who can be especially annoying. Ed O'Neill is my favorite ... better in this than as Al Bundy and that's saying a lot. Two great shows in 2014 ... the 2-parter, The Wedding, and this past October's Halloween show. LOL good. Cam and Mitchell are married (with child) and not in the least interested in you ... relax. Mouse, you photo is gorgeous! Thanks for sharing it. Another bright, sunshiny day here. Chilly but not cold. i know. it's really sad, for me, not her. i wholeheartedly believe that god answers prayer, but i also wholeheartedly believe that all the praying in the world for it would still leave me disappointed. i like modern family really. i'm serious about not liking having the homos on there, and i really don't see ed oneil's character being accepting of the fact that his son is a homo, but, that's the show. i think that al would have been fine with it, but, not jay. obviously, i detest the fact that they have a kid, but, it's a girl, so there won't be too much damage done. it is just a funny show, but unlike you, i think the daughters are truly representative of american teenagers.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 22, 2015 7:43:30 GMT -5
life is not fair. you will NEVER get everything you want. in order to not be disappointed, you hope for that, but don't expect it. it only hurts you to aspire to something that will NEVER happen. i detest the homos on modern family, but, i watch the show because of sofia vergara. i hope to someday screw her, but, i don't expect that i ever will. so, when it never happens, i won't be totally disappointed, only a little Hi Iamjumbo, you don't seem to realise that by expecting that the worst might happen you are actually negating your wish, We have to keep the positive thought in our minds in order for it to happen, the minute you express doubt, you have cancelled any chance that you might have had. i truly wish that life were as simple as you envision it. i'd never worry about keeping the lights on. i do not believe that in all honesty, you can tell me that EVERYTHING that you had ever hoped for came true. i'd bet the ranch that there have been many times when it didn't of course, even if the majority of it did, you're way ahead of the game
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Post by beth on Jan 22, 2015 11:37:20 GMT -5
lol Jim .. sit down and strap in ... the lovely Sophia is engaged to be married in real life. The wedding is set for this summer. Time is short. I rarely watch TV and yet, I love every one on Modern family ... even the Dumphy daughters who can be especially annoying. Ed O'Neill is my favorite ... better in this than as Al Bundy and that's saying a lot. Two great shows in 2014 ... the 2-parter, The Wedding, and this past October's Halloween show. LOL good. Cam and Mitchell are married (with child) and not in the least interested in you ... relax. Mouse, you photo is gorgeous! Thanks for sharing it. Another bright, sunshiny day here. Chilly but not cold. i know. it's really sad, for me, not her. i wholeheartedly believe that god answers prayer, but i also wholeheartedly believe that all the praying in the world for it would still leave me disappointed. i like modern family really. i'm serious about not liking having the homos on there, and i really don't see ed oneil's character being accepting of the fact that his son is a homo, but, that's the show. i think that al would have been fine with it, but, not jay. obviously, i detest the fact that they have a kid, but, it's a girl, so there won't be too much damage done. it is just a funny show, but unlike you, i think the daughters are truly representative of american teenagers. Oh I think so, too ... but exaggerated (in re the girls). No, he's realistic (O'neill's character). Most people really do love their children more than they love their prejudices. Sorry about Sophia ... she'd have been sympathetic. lol "Oooo Jeeem, I'm soo sorry (roll the Rs). Et was just a twist of fate. Be HAhppy for me!"
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Post by annaj26 on Jan 22, 2015 12:31:52 GMT -5
It wasn't meant as flattery or insult or anything personal. Just a comment. Now, I can add that you come across as patronizing and defensive. Just my own opinion. You are certainly entitlled to your opinion, that, we agree on, but I can say in all honesty that you are mistaken in thinking that I am patronizing or defensive, but if that is how you see me, there is nothing I can do about that. All I am doing is explaining how I see life. No, I didn't say you ARE patronizing or defensive, I said that's the way you come across. You probably don't mean it that way.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 22, 2015 12:55:57 GMT -5
i know. it's really sad, for me, not her. i wholeheartedly believe that god answers prayer, but i also wholeheartedly believe that all the praying in the world for it would still leave me disappointed. i like modern family really. i'm serious about not liking having the homos on there, and i really don't see ed oneil's character being accepting of the fact that his son is a homo, but, that's the show. i think that al would have been fine with it, but, not jay. obviously, i detest the fact that they have a kid, but, it's a girl, so there won't be too much damage done. it is just a funny show, but unlike you, i think the daughters are truly representative of american teenagers. Oh I think so, too ... but exaggerated (in re the girls). No, he's realistic (O'neill's character). Most people really do love their children more than they love their prejudices. Sorry about Sophia ... she'd have been sympathetic. lol "Oooo Jeeem, I'm soo sorry (roll the Rs). Et was just a twist of fate. Be HAhppy for me!" hell, i would undoubtedly be lucky if she even said that to me. it would probably be closer to "estás loco? llegar lo más lejos posible de mí". of course, i understand spanish, so i would know she said "are you crazy? get the hell away from me" the disappointment never ends
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