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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 13, 2011 7:12:57 GMT -5
you don't want to go there lad, but you did. christ forgave the thief on the cross of his sins, but he didn't relieve him of his proper punishment, did he? actually, forgiveness is not the word i wanted, but i just can't think of the one that i usually use in that sentence. nonetheless, you cannot forgive, as in pardon, murder. Its all, if you'll forgive the phrase, mumbo-jumbo. But its hard to release someone if you're nailed to a cross, so forgiveness will have to do. Locking people up for life for murder without parole isn't what you might call a pat on the head. Perhaps you're thinking along the lines of... Vengeance Revenge Retribution Etc you lose. his being nailed to the cross in NO way prevents him from releasing the thief, any more than it prevented him from releasing himself.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 13, 2011 7:15:34 GMT -5
no thank you. i choose to remain civilized. i prefer to not live where life is considered so cheap. it is your perogative if you choose to do so, but as for me, no way jose Well, I guess its civilised for 2000BC, just as Stonehenge was being built, but today in the 21st century...... Nah. when you are able to explain how your insistence that the life of a murderer is worth more than the life a the five year old girl that he raped and murdered, you will have a smidgen of a case. until you can rationally explain it though, you have NO case whatsoever that kind of thinking can hardly be deemed civilized, at stonehenge or now
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Post by fretslider on Jul 13, 2011 9:17:21 GMT -5
Its all, if you'll forgive the phrase, mumbo-jumbo. But its hard to release someone if you're nailed to a cross, so forgiveness will have to do. Locking people up for life for murder without parole isn't what you might call a pat on the head. Perhaps you're thinking along the lines of... Vengeance Revenge Retribution Etc you lose. his being nailed to the cross in NO way prevents him from releasing the thief, any more than it prevented him from releasing himself. Ok jumbo. Lets suppose for a moment that you are nailed to a cross. How are you going to help someone else? You can't move, that's for sure. Now lets go back to reality. Yeshua was a long-haired hippie type who didn't have a job. A mere mortal like you and me.
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Post by fretslider on Jul 13, 2011 9:22:12 GMT -5
Well, I guess its civilised for 2000BC, just as Stonehenge was being built, but today in the 21st century...... Nah. when you are able to explain how your insistence that the life of a murderer is worth more than the life a the five year old girl that he raped and murdered, you will have a smidgen of a case. until you can rationally explain it though, you have NO case whatsoever that kind of thinking can hardly be deemed civilized, at stonehenge or now I haven't insisted on anything of the sort, jumbo. That's a sly try, but it fell at the first hurdle. Does your good book not say: two wrongs do not make a right? Are you certain that isn't a koran you have there
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 13, 2011 11:42:30 GMT -5
you lose. his being nailed to the cross in NO way prevents him from releasing the thief, any more than it prevented him from releasing himself. Ok jumbo. Lets suppose for a moment that you are nailed to a cross. How are you going to help someone else? You can't move, that's for sure. Now lets go back to reality. Yeshua was a long-haired hippie type who didn't have a job. A mere mortal like you and me. your problem is that you keep forgetting the fact that he could have come down from the cross any time that he felt like it. he wouldn't have needed them, but, if you ever read it, you know that a legion of angels were at his beck and call to snatch him the minute he asked. as with everything else, it's your right to reject reality if you choose. i'm not the one that you'll have to answer to
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 13, 2011 11:46:16 GMT -5
when you are able to explain how your insistence that the life of a murderer is worth more than the life a the five year old girl that he raped and murdered, you will have a smidgen of a case. until you can rationally explain it though, you have NO case whatsoever that kind of thinking can hardly be deemed civilized, at stonehenge or now I haven't insisted on anything of the sort, jumbo. That's a sly try, but it fell at the first hurdle. Does your good book not say: two wrongs do not make a right? Are you certain that isn't a koran you have there no, the good book does not say that, but, if it did, it would be irrelevant here. we are not talking about two wrongs. we are talking about right punishing the wrong. yes, that is EXACTLY what you have said. that is the ONLY thing that you are saying when you are clamoring to not properly punish a murderer. as long as you want the one who murdered the child to live, while the child is dead, you are doing nothing more than saying that his life is worth as much as hers, which is an unconscionable position
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Post by fretslider on Jul 13, 2011 16:53:51 GMT -5
I haven't insisted on anything of the sort, jumbo. That's a sly try, but it fell at the first hurdle. Does your good book not say: two wrongs do not make a right? Are you certain that isn't a koran you have there no, the good book does not say that, but, if it did, it would be irrelevant here. we are not talking about two wrongs. we are talking about right punishing the wrong. yes, that is EXACTLY what you have said. that is the ONLY thing that you are saying when you are clamoring to not properly punish a murderer. as long as you want the one who murdered the child to live, while the child is dead, you are doing nothing more than saying that his life is worth as much as hers, which is an unconscionable position Ah so you judge when your beliefs should apply and when they should not. Selective ecclesiasticals and all that. I did not say anything of the sort, that is merely the spin you wish to put on it, and as I said it fell at the first hurdle. You aren't that cruel that you'll flog a dead horse, are you?
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Post by fretslider on Jul 13, 2011 16:56:09 GMT -5
Ok jumbo. Lets suppose for a moment that you are nailed to a cross. How are you going to help someone else? You can't move, that's for sure. Now lets go back to reality. Yeshua was a long-haired hippie type who didn't have a job. A mere mortal like you and me. your problem is that you keep forgetting the fact that he could have come down from the cross any time that he felt like it. he wouldn't have needed them, but, if you ever read it, you know that a legion of angels were at his beck and call to snatch him the minute he asked. as with everything else, it's your right to reject reality if you choose. i'm not the one that you'll have to answer to How could he have come down from the cross if he's nailed to it? Religion is a delusion, jumbo, and you seem to have it pretty bad
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 14, 2011 8:31:39 GMT -5
your problem is that you keep forgetting the fact that he could have come down from the cross any time that he felt like it. he wouldn't have needed them, but, if you ever read it, you know that a legion of angels were at his beck and call to snatch him the minute he asked. as with everything else, it's your right to reject reality if you choose. i'm not the one that you'll have to answer to How could he have come down from the cross if he's nailed to it? Religion is a delusion, jumbo, and you seem to have it pretty bad hardly. i'm just smart enough to know better. however, even if you were correct, a prudent person knows that it's better to be safe than sorry. the smart folks would rather believe and find out their wrong, than to disbelieve and find out they were wrong when its too late
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 14, 2011 8:33:56 GMT -5
no, the good book does not say that, but, if it did, it would be irrelevant here. we are not talking about two wrongs. we are talking about right punishing the wrong. yes, that is EXACTLY what you have said. that is the ONLY thing that you are saying when you are clamoring to not properly punish a murderer. as long as you want the one who murdered the child to live, while the child is dead, you are doing nothing more than saying that his life is worth as much as hers, which is an unconscionable position Ah so you judge when your beliefs should apply and when they should not. Selective ecclesiasticals and all that. I did not say anything of the sort, that is merely the spin you wish to put on it, and as I said it fell at the first hurdle. You aren't that cruel that you'll flog a dead horse, are you? i'm not the one doing the flogging. i know how uncomfortable it has to be for you to take such an untenable position, but, you have every right to be as wrong as you like. it just doesn't change the reality
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Post by fretslider on Jul 14, 2011 9:00:42 GMT -5
How could he have come down from the cross if he's nailed to it? Religion is a delusion, jumbo, and you seem to have it pretty bad hardly. i'm just smart enough to know better. however, even if you were correct, a prudent person knows that it's better to be safe than sorry. the smart folks would rather believe and find out their wrong, than to disbelieve and find out they were wrong when its too late After a while sitting on that thin fence is really going to hurt. Belief out of a kind of fear is cowardly to say the least. As Mr T say's, get some nuts!!!
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Post by fretslider on Jul 14, 2011 9:01:50 GMT -5
Ah so you judge when your beliefs should apply and when they should not. Selective ecclesiasticals and all that. I did not say anything of the sort, that is merely the spin you wish to put on it, and as I said it fell at the first hurdle. You aren't that cruel that you'll flog a dead horse, are you? i'm not the one doing the flogging. i know how uncomfortable it has to be for you to take such an untenable position, but, you have every right to be as wrong as you like. it just doesn't change the reality My position is civilised and more than tenable, whereas you remain rooted in neolithic times. However, to cheer you up here's some news about your 'civilised friends' in China.... China is equipping its courts with mobile execution vans as it shifts away from the communist system's traditional bullet in the head, towards use of lethal injection. Intermediate Courts of the southern province of Yunnan were issued with 18 new execution vans on February 28 and a court official said some have already been used.
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Post by mouse on Jul 14, 2011 12:41:44 GMT -5
i would rather a bullit than a lethal injection
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 14, 2011 13:51:20 GMT -5
hardly. i'm just smart enough to know better. however, even if you were correct, a prudent person knows that it's better to be safe than sorry. the smart folks would rather believe and find out their wrong, than to disbelieve and find out they were wrong when its too late After a while sitting on that thin fence is really going to hurt. Belief out of a kind of fear is cowardly to say the least. As Mr T say's, get some nuts!!! thankfully, both are something i need not worry about.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 14, 2011 13:54:40 GMT -5
i'm not the one doing the flogging. i know how uncomfortable it has to be for you to take such an untenable position, but, you have every right to be as wrong as you like. it just doesn't change the reality My position is civilised and more than tenable, whereas you remain rooted in neolithic times. However, to cheer you up here's some news about your 'civilised friends' in China.... China is equipping its courts with mobile execution vans as it shifts away from the communist system's traditional bullet in the head, towards use of lethal injection. Intermediate Courts of the southern province of Yunnan were issued with 18 new execution vans on February 28 and a court official said some have already been used. i'm sure that it must be nice to be able to convince yourself so easily. i imagine that you led the charge as a kid to sneak downstairs and catch santa on christmas eve. obviously, china does executions properly. there are very few who languish in prison for ten years between sentence and execution
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