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Post by fretslider on May 16, 2017 14:31:21 GMT -5
Cults always end up the same. Try not to do a Jonestown or a Waco. Hi Fretslider, If you knew the real truth of what ECKANKAR stands for you would not say the things that you say. It is the religion of Light and Sound the two aspects of the Holy Spirit. It is certainly not a cult. As far as I'm concerned, a cult is a cult is a cult. And a cult is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object. Eckankar followers believe that he [Paul Twitchell] studied under two Eck Masters: Sudar Singh in Paris and India, and a elderly monk Rebazar Tarzs in Tibet. They believe that he received the title of the 971st Eck Master from Tarzs in 1965, thus becoming the latest in a series of Masters which began before recorded history. www.eaec.org/cults/eckankar.htmDo you not believe that the Mahanta - the spiritual leader of Eckankar - is a "living manifestation of God".
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Post by men an tol on May 16, 2017 16:40:47 GMT -5
Of course, as an Atheist I guess I don’t have an oar in the water here. That said, I do have an interest because religion (whether I like it or not) has been a major player in the development and evolution of cultures. There is little doubt that there have been some philosophers (including religious philosophers) who have contributed in significant ways to the evolution of, and the describing of, our Western culture.
It is also true that Christianity has a necessary element that doesn’t exist in many other religions and cultures, that is, the free will of the individual to choose. That choice can be right or it can be wrong, but that is a goal of Western culture and an element necessary to being a Christian.
This freedom is rejected by most religions and most cults, and, rejected by most cultures. As Fret noted, cults are oriented to personality. As typically occurs, dialog will degenerate into the mouthing of platitudes and meaningless bromides supported by attacking the persons on the other side. The dialog degenerates when one side or the other, or both, come to the realization that they are standing in a dry well of ideas.
Cults emerge from the personality of an individual and are not supported by long years of in depth philosophical positions. Those who come to follow that leader must, repeat, must, follow the directions of that leader. We have to face it that there are untold numbers of individuals who try to take Christianity in a new direction, one that promotes that person as the new way to find salvation. However, Christianity rests on the singular core rule, “Believe in me I am the way.”
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 16, 2017 17:57:04 GMT -5
It would seem that you have your own hidden agenda, who would have thought it? Now I truly know the true you. Not the kindly old man supposedly out to help people, but to instil fear, just so that you can hang on to being an Atheist not willing to admit that you have wasted your life being an Atheist.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 16, 2017 18:16:54 GMT -5
Hi Fretslider, If you knew the real truth of what ECKANKAR stands for you would not say the things that you say. It is the religion of Light and Sound the two aspects of the Holy Spirit. It is certainly not a cult. As far as I'm concerned, a cult is a cult is a cult. And a cult is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object. Eckankar followers believe that he [Paul Twitchell] studied under two Eck Masters: Sudar Singh in Paris and India, and a elderly monk Rebazar Tarzs in Tibet. They believe that he received the title of the 971st Eck Master from Tarzs in 1965, thus becoming the latest in a series of Masters which began before recorded history. www.eaec.org/cults/eckankar.htmDo you not believe that the Mahanta - the spiritual leader of Eckankar - is a "living manifestation of God". There is only one Supreme God and Creator. Harold Klemp is God's messenger and all he does is show people the way. He is the way shower. How to reach the Kindom of Heaven that Atheists refuse to acknowledge is real. They believe that only this physical universe exists. Which is quite wrong. And the Quantum Physicists will eventually prove it.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 16, 2017 18:41:27 GMT -5
Of course, as an Atheist I guess I don’t have an oar in the water here. That said, I do have an interest because religion (whether I like it or not) has been a major player in the development and evolution of cultures. There is little doubt that there have been some philosophers (including religious philosophers) who have contributed in significant ways to the evolution of, and the describing of, our Western culture. It is also true that Christianity has a necessary element that doesn’t exist in many other religions and cultures, that is, the free will of the individual to choose. That choice can be right or it can be wrong, but that is a goal of Western culture and an element necessary to being a Christian. This freedom is rejected by most religions and most cults, and, rejected by most cultures. As Fret noted, cults are oriented to personality. As typically occurs, dialog will degenerate into the mouthing of platitudes and meaningless bromides supported by attacking the persons on the other side. The dialog degenerates when one side or the other, or both, come to the realization that they are standing in a dry well of ideas. Cults emerge from the personality of an individual and are not supported by long years of in depth philosophical positions. Those who come to follow that leader must, repeat, must, follow the directions of that leader. We have to face it that there are untold numbers of individuals who try to take Christianity in a new direction, one that promotes that person as the new way to find salvation. However, Christianity rests on the singular core rule, “Believe in me I am the way.” The Spiritual Leader of ECKANKAR guides only, the person themselves learns from their own experiences, as I do myself and as so many others do. When ithe pupil is ready to hear the truth, the Master will appear. I for one will be forever grateful that I found ECKANKAR. No harm has ever come to me and I have been a member since 1995 or 1997. I am only relating the individual truthful experiences that others have passed on to www.Eckankar.org
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Post by men an tol on May 16, 2017 19:33:32 GMT -5
It would seem that you have your own hidden agenda, who would have thought it? Now I truly know the true you. Not the kindly old man supposedly out to help people, but to instil fear, just so that you can hang on to being an Atheist not willing to admit that you have wasted your life being an Atheist. Scottish Lassie, over the years I have seen all sorts of postings on the internet in all sorts of venues, but this latest one of yours certainly leads the way in misstating the comments of others and making allegation for which there is no foundation. All I did with that posting was to provide access for others to begin to understand the leadership of ECKANKAR beginning with Paul Twitchell and continuing through the current leader. I have found it to be a fascinating story. On the other hand, you do not seem to want such a story to become easily accessible, you seem to fear it getting out. That attitude is easy to understand as those promoting a cult (such as yourself) know that as its internal actions come out into the sunlight, its credibility will diminish, and the membership will diminish. Your periodic stated dislike (hatred?) of Atheists demonstrates your lack of understanding of what Atheism means. Your periodic statement that multiple dimensions will be proven by the physicists working with Quantum Physics also demonstrates your lack of knowledge that the concept of quantum physics is a mathematical construct and not some other dimension to where we can somehow travel. It is, comprised of eleven dimensions one of which is time and the others represent various perspectives of the physical dimensions of this temporal world. That you find it satisfying to believe the mysticism promoted by ECKANKAR, is fine, but when you try to relate it into the temporal world, do not become upset when those ideas are questioned. It just makes it appear that you do not have confidence in your own stated beliefs. All you seem able to do is to either get angry stressing your distress at the questioning, or, fall back on the platitudes and old bromides of the wonderful nature of ECKANKAR. Even with all of your postings you have not provided a single proof of what you promote. It seems that all you assert is dependent on one of two things. One being your stated personal experiences which cannot proven, and, the credibility of ECKANKAR. When backed up, all you can do is get angry.
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 20:33:11 GMT -5
The 'Trinity'.... is clearly a case of multiple personality disorder. Hi Fretslider, I wonder who thought up the Trinity. I just accepted that fact without any analysis and have not thought about it. Could it have been the scholars who interpreted the Bible in the first place? If so ? You could have a point. it wasn't scholars..it was the disciples scholars can only interpret what is written... and they scholars didn't interpret the bible ...they interpretated the languages from what was written into a language [latin] which made the writings available .. Aramaic.. Greek and Latin[Latin was the language of the day just as English is today].. remember the apostles traveled widely preaching after the death of Christ and what they had to say .saw and remebered was written and a little later was put together .. the old testament of course was the writings of the Torah and bingo you have the Bible
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 20:48:16 GMT -5
what sort of answer is that ?.. just meaningless twaddle but remember ...""" that I am the lord thy God and will not find him guiltless that taketh my /his name in vain""" I can only repeat that some the stuff you come out with has no basis in Christs teachings or words Only to YOUR knowledge and understanding I believe my interpretation to be true. This world is full of hate. God is pure love, so anyone who doesn't have love in their hesrt, will never enter the kingdom of God as long as there is stll hate there. then you should point out ANY thing which I say which have no basis in Christs teaching or deeds I interpretate NOTHING..NOTHING at all...I take the words of Christ at face value .... there is nothing to interpret.. the words of Christ are very simple and very clear as were his deeds.. a child could follow the message of Christ SL wrote ""I believe my interpretation to be true""what interpretation exactly would those be then .. all you do is spout stuff which Jesus never spoke of.. stuff which has no basis in Christian teachings what so ever
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 21:06:10 GMT -5
if you haven't given it any thought.. then do so because its interesting no I do not think he lied... but I do think the concept of the trinity is not an imposible concept for some one who can create a world and human life.. can rise from death and ascend into heaven/clouds ... of one believes then you must believe in every thing... its not pick and mix Hi Mouse, I think it is a case of pick and mix, after all, there was only a small amount of srcolls found that comprises the Bible, the rest were used to light their fires to either keep warm or for cooking. So one wonders where the rest of the information comes from? It seems to me that I should only take my own experiences as a surety. w3hat are you talking about now ?.. the dead sea scrolls are a very recent find in the history of Christianity the dead sea scrolls were NOT the basis for the Bible[interestingly they are not at odds with the BIble ] I have already described where much of the information for the bible comes from... the scrolls though could have been and look like they may haven part of an original gathering of information more interesting though is why were they stored in a cave.. who were they being protected from the fact they were stored in Jars is not unusual...they would be safer in jars away fron sunlight damage and rats and insects you seem desperate to justify this messing around with Christianity """I believe my interpretation to be true"""" you don't have any interpretation all you do is tery to justify adding things to Christianity which are not spoken of by pick and mix I mean only taking notice of the bits that suit you and ignoring other bits which you don't want to know
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 21:20:56 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, a cult is a cult is a cult. And a cult is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object. Eckankar followers believe that he [Paul Twitchell] studied under two Eck Masters: Sudar Singh in Paris and India, and a elderly monk Rebazar Tarzs in Tibet. They believe that he received the title of the 971st Eck Master from Tarzs in 1965, thus becoming the latest in a series of Masters which began before recorded history. www.eaec.org/cults/eckankar.htmDo you not believe that the Mahanta - the spiritual leader of Eckankar - is a "living manifestation of God". There is only one Supreme God and Creator. Harold Klemp is God's messenger and all he does is show people the way. He is the way shower. How to reach the Kindom of Heaven that Atheists refuse to acknowledge is real. They believe that only this physical universe exists. Which is quite wrong. And the Quantum Physicists will eventually prove it. oh dear.. silly me I thought Jesus was the way the truth and the light and gods messenger.. at least that is what Jesus said ... as for this SL wrote """Harold Klemp is God's messenger and all he does is show people the way. He is the way shower. How to reach the Kindom of Heaven"""" strewth .. that is pure plagerism ..and many Christians would see it as blasphemous Christ already showed the way to the kingdom of heaven... as I have already said...many of the things you have spoken of are not even a nod to Christianity.. nothing to do with Christianity at all
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 21:35:40 GMT -5
It would seem that you have your own hidden agenda, who would have thought it? Now I truly know the true you. Not the kindly old man supposedly out to help people, but to instil fear, just so that you can hang on to being an Atheist not willing to admit that you have wasted your life being an Atheist. hang on... when if ever did Men say he was a kindly old man out to help people ? he didn't so why are you being personal and nasty toward him ? and how is he trying to instill fear ? and what hidden agenda ?could he possibly have all he has done is show the other side of the ECK.. THATS HARDLY AN UNKIND THING TO NOR IS IT INSTILLING FEAR.. afterall you constantly barrage us with information about ECK.. and Christians don't have a hissy fit if the crusades etc are mentioned ... and just how is atheism relevant ? SLwrote """just so that you can hang on to being an Atheist not willing to admit that you have wasted your life being an Atheist"" and whats all that supposed to mean wasted lives and hanging on the atheism....it doesn't make any sense at all no ones wasting their lives and no one is hanging on
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 21:39:21 GMT -5
Of course, as an Atheist I guess I don’t have an oar in the water here. That said, I do have an interest because religion (whether I like it or not) has been a major player in the development and evolution of cultures. There is little doubt that there have been some philosophers (including religious philosophers) who have contributed in significant ways to the evolution of, and the describing of, our Western culture. It is also true that Christianity has a necessary element that doesn’t exist in many other religions and cultures, that is, the free will of the individual to choose. That choice can be right or it can be wrong, but that is a goal of Western culture and an element necessary to being a Christian. This freedom is rejected by most religions and most cults, and, rejected by most cultures. As Fret noted, cults are oriented to personality. As typically occurs, dialog will degenerate into the mouthing of platitudes and meaningless bromides supported by attacking the persons on the other side. The dialog degenerates when one side or the other, or both, come to the realization that they are standing in a dry well of ideas. Cults emerge from the personality of an individual and are not supported by long years of in depth philosophical positions. Those who come to follow that leader must, repeat, must, follow the directions of that leader. We have to face it that there are untold numbers of individuals who try to take Christianity in a new direction, one that promotes that person as the new way to find salvation. However, Christianity rests on the singular core rule, “Believe in me I am the way.” The Spiritual Leader of ECKANKAR guides only, the person themselves learns from their own experiences, as I do myself and as so many others do. When ithe pupil is ready to hear the truth, the Master will appear. I for one will be forever grateful that I found ECKANKAR. No harm has ever come to me and I have been a member since 1995 or 1997. I am only relating the individual truthful experiences that others have passed on to www.Eckankar.org now you have just beautifully illustrated that eck is nothing what so ever to do with Christianity
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Post by Scottish Lassie on May 16, 2017 21:40:50 GMT -5
Hi Fretslider, I wonder who thought up the Trinity. I just accepted that fact without any analysis and have not thought about it. Could it have been the scholars who interpreted the Bible in the first place? If so ? You could have a point. it wasn't scholars..it was the disciples scholars can only interpret what is written... and they scholars didn't interpret the bible ...they interpretated the languages from what was written into a language [latin] which made the writings available .. Aramaic.. Greek and Latin[Latin was the language of the day just as English is today].. remember the apostles traveled widely preaching after the death of Christ and what they had to say .saw and remebered was written and a little later was put together .. the old testament of course was the writings of the Torah and bingo you have the Bible Hi Mouse I'm not so sire about that. As I have noted.!!! To me reborn quite plainly means reincarnation, but in your estimation it is not how the scholars see it. I have let you know how it appears to me and my proof is through my personal experiences, you can't get any better proof than that. I have visited other planes of existence, whereas you have not and apparently neither have the scolars who decided what a certain word meant. There you have it.!!!
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 21:55:53 GMT -5
Only to YOUR knowledge and understanding I believe my interpretation to be true. This world is full of hate. God is pure love, so anyone who doesn't have love in their hesrt, will never enter the kingdom of God as long as there is stll hate in their hearts. Hi Mouse, In case you don't know, taking God's name in vain means using it as a swear word and I certainly have not done that. Have you? yes it means exactly what it says...do not invoke the lords/Gods name when swearing I can swear like a docker when I get going.. but rarely invoke the name of Jesus or god... plenty of good old English words to choose from SL wrote ""so anyone who doesn't have love in their heart, will never enter the kingdom of God""" really ?are you absolutely sure about that if I remember correctly as long as the beliefe was there heaven was available all
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Post by mouse on May 16, 2017 22:00:08 GMT -5
it wasn't scholars..it was the disciples scholars can only interpret what is written... and they scholars didn't interpret the bible ...they interpretated the languages from what was written into a language [latin] which made the writings available .. Aramaic.. Greek and Latin[Latin was the language of the day just as English is today].. remember the apostles traveled widely preaching after the death of Christ and what they had to say .saw and remebered was written and a little later was put together .. the old testament of course was the writings of the Torah and bingo you have the Bible Hi Mouse I'm not so sire about that. As I have noted.!!! To me reborn quite plainly means reincarnation, but in your estimation it is not how the scholars see it. I have let you know how it appears to me and my proof is through my personal experiences, you can't get any better proof than that. I have visited other planes of existence, whereas you have not and apparently neither have the scolars who decided what a certain word meant. There you have it.!!! do you actually know what a scholar is """To me reborn quite plainly means reincarnation""" it may do so to you .. have you never thought that you could be wrong and a huge number or others may be right to be reborn is to start anew.. a fresh start .. a new beginning ...NOT a physical rebirth
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