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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 5:19:53 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 18, 2017 5:19:53 GMT -5
I actually wondered whether you and Mike realize how often you guys repeat the same flowery recital over and over again. I believe we are all convinced. why do you keep banging on her over it? Hi Chefmate, we all cop it, so Lady Linda or yourself are not the only ones, don't let it worry you.!!!
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Post by beth on Jan 18, 2017 9:56:00 GMT -5
I actually wondered whether you and Mike realize how often you guys repeat the same flowery recital over and over again. I believe we are all convinced. why do you keep banging on her over it? You're right. I could have skipped that second post. Must have been tired and irritable last night. Those are the times to bring down the computer and just say no.
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ladylinda
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Post by ladylinda on Jan 18, 2017 13:20:22 GMT -5
This is what the Bible says. (I could have probably found more verses but these show that basically we are supposed to die and stay dead till the Last Judgement).
Deuteronomy 31:16 (KJV) [8] And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers…
Psalm 115:17 (ESV) The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.
Isaiah 26:19 (ESV) Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.
John 3:13 (ESV) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
1 Corinthians 15:42, 51 and 52 (ESV) (42) So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. (51) …We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (ESV) (13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. (14) For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. (15) For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. (16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Revelation 20:4 and 5 (ESV) (4) Then I saw…the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus…. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (5) The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:11-13 (ESV) (11) Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. (12) And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. (13) And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades [the grave] gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 18:38:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 18:38:11 GMT -5
why do you keep banging on her over it? You're right. I could have skipped that second post. Must have been tired and irritable last night. Those are the times to bring down the computer and just say no. I know exactly what you mean and am guilty myself....
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 18:43:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 18:43:20 GMT -5
that's odd, because I cannot find the bible teaches anything but that our spirit either goes to heaven or hell upon death...who told you otherwise? Hi Chefmate51, we know there is apparently only one Hell, but St.Paul mentions three Heavens so to which one do the dead in Christ go? It seems that the information contained in the Bible is not all that it is thought to be, so once again we have a dilemma. There is never a dilemma with the bible....God doesn't work that way. Read this and see if it helps your confusion: www.gotquestions.org/levels-heaven.html
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 18:46:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 18:46:22 GMT -5
but how do you justify reincarnation when the bible specifically states: Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment Paul spoke many times of being with the Lord upon death....and many times Jesus spoke of hell that it is immediate upon death. IF reincarnation exists, why did Jesus not once speak of it? that should be your first clue it is not going to happen and I don't want to see you pass away with a belief that will damn you to hell. Hi Chefmate51,That is quite true that man is appointed to die once. Elijah is not John the Baptist they are two different person's who lived at different times and had separate missions in life. Yet Jesus said to his Disciples that Elijah had come again and the Disciples took that to mean John the Baptist. Apparently they believed that Reincarnation was possible or they would have asked Jesus what he was talking about. Matthew17. no, no, no, no, no. www.gotquestions.org/John-Baptist-Elijah.html
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ladylinda
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 19:09:30 GMT -5
Post by ladylinda on Jan 18, 2017 19:09:30 GMT -5
The Bible is fairly clear; when we die that's it till the Last Judgement.
So either the Bible is wrong (my own personal belief based on personal experience of apparent individual survival of death, the experiences of others and years of study on the subject) or it's self-contradictory.
Let's remember the Bible was written by men (and almost exclusively men in the gendered sense of that word). They weren't sitting there taking down dictation from God like shorthand typists.
The Bible was written over hundreds of years by people who had their own ideas, their visions and so on. It wasn't even finally codified into a 'canon' until around 400 B.C. by a group of Rabbinical scholars.
Some of the books they left out are included in some versions of the Bible; some aren't.
We're talking about a book that was generated by 'committee' rather than divine inspiration.
And the New Testament canon wasn't finally decided on till Constantine and the Council of Nicea.
Even then a lot of 'heretical' Christians continued to use other books that the council had rejected.
I don't believe a bunch of committees, however well intentioned, represent the word of God rather than the words of men.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 19:35:13 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 18, 2017 19:35:13 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, we know there is apparently only one Hell, but St.Paul mentions three Heavens so to which one do the dead in Christ go? It seems that the information contained in the Bible is not all that it is thought to be, so once again we have a dilemma. There is never a dilemma with the bible....God doesn't work that way. Read this and see if it helps your confusion: www.gotquestions.org/levels-heaven.htmlHi Chefmate51, I am not in the least bit confused. Reincarnation is staring you in the face only you don't recognize it. What does St Paul say in 2 Corinthians 12:2 whether in the body or OUT OF THE BODY. This term refers to Soul Travel, Soul leaves the body when it is resting in sleep or when meditating & travels wherever it is allowed to go according to the level of it's spiritual evolvement. In Matthew 17 it definitely describes what reincarnation is all about. When the Body (vehicle) dies, Soul has no other choice but to vacate that body and go to the dimension where,according to it's accrued Karma, it will be decided which parents and country will best suit it. Back it goes again to be born once more into this physical plane in order to learn what is needed for it's spiritual growth.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 19:57:01 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:57:01 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I am not in the least bit confused. Reincarnation is staring you in the face only you don't recognize it. What does St Paul say in 2 Corinthians 12:2 whether in the body or OUT OF THE BODY. This term refers to Soul Travel, Soul leaves the body when it is resting in sleep or when meditating & travels wherever it is allowed to go according to the level of it's spiritual evolvement. In Matthew 17 it definitely describes what reincarnation is all about. When the Body (vehicle) dies, Soul has no other choice but to vacate that body and go to the dimension where,according to it's accrued Karma, it will be decided which parents and country will best suit it. Back it goes again to be born once more into this physical plane in order to learn what is needed for it's spiritual growth. I disagree with you, we have reached an impasse so there is nothing left to discuss.
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ladylinda
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Jan 18, 2017 19:57:33 GMT -5
Post by ladylinda on Jan 18, 2017 19:57:33 GMT -5
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 21:33:47 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 18, 2017 21:33:47 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I am not in the least bit confused. Reincarnation is staring you in the face only you don't recognize it. What does St Paul say in 2 Corinthians 12:2 whether in the body or OUT OF THE BODY. This term refers to Soul Travel, Soul leaves the body when it is resting in sleep or when meditating & travels wherever it is allowed to go according to the level of it's spiritual evolvement. In Matthew 17 it definitely describes what reincarnation is all about. When the Body (vehicle) dies, Soul has no other choice but to vacate that body and go to the dimension where,according to it's accrued Karma, it will be decided which parents and country will best suit it. Back it goes again to be born once more into this physical plane in order to learn what is needed for it's spiritual growth. I disagree with you, we have reached an impasse so there is nothing left to discuss. Hi Chefmate51. It looks like it. As has already been pointed out by someone else the Bible has been written by men, the rest of us seems to interpret it via our own understanding. We also see life from different perspectives because of our individual experiences.that is certainly understandable. What I don't understand is the fact that it does state quite clearly that Jesus said: that Elijah had come again and had been treated badly. Without anyone saying anything else, the Disciples immediately thought that Jesus meant John the Baptist. It stands to reason that they must have believed there was such a thing as reincarnation as it didn't phase them one bit, they took it all in their stride. You seem to be doing your best to prove that what is stated is not the case because it is not what you have chosen to believe. Don't forget it does say that when the Bible was written we are all understanding the contents as if through a glass darkly. Which means that we still have a lot to understand and that can only be rectified by seeking which will bring more enlightenment. I am still listening to the Holy Spirit so am spiritually evolving slowly but surely each day. May the Blessings Be.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 22:26:19 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 22:26:19 GMT -5
The Bible is fairly clear; when we die that's it till the Last Judgement. So either the Bible is wrong (my own personal belief based on personal experience of apparent individual survival of death, the experiences of others and years of study on the subject) or it's self-contradictory. Let's remember the Bible was written by men (and almost exclusively men in the gendered sense of that word). They weren't sitting there taking down dictation from God like shorthand typists. The Bible was written over hundreds of years by people who had their own ideas, their visions and so on. It wasn't even finally codified into a 'canon' until around 400 B.C. by a group of Rabbinical scholars. Some of the books they left out are included in some versions of the Bible; some aren't. We're talking about a book that was generated by 'committee' rather than divine inspiration. And the New Testament canon wasn't finally decided on till Constantine and the Council of Nicea. Even then a lot of 'heretical' Christians continued to use other books that the council had rejected. I don't believe a bunch of committees, however well intentioned, represent the word of God rather than the words of men. I strongly disagree with you, but like the situation with Scottish Lassie, we have reached an impasse and no point of further discussion for me at least.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 22:39:01 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 18, 2017 22:39:01 GMT -5
Hi Ladylinda, What I just read is a lot of hogwash. Jesus quite plainly said that Elijah had come again and the Disciples took that to mean that Elijah came back as John the Baptist. Does that mean that Jesus was lying? Or perhaps being controlled by Satan? I mentioned earlier that Soul inhabits a human body so that it can have experiences in the Physical Plane which ofcourse cannot be experienced in the spiritual dimensions. The human body contains all that is necessary for the teaching of Soul. Memory is not lost, as the body ages the experiences that Soul needs is all embedded in the function of the body by the action that proceeds as life unfolds. Soul is not imprisoned in the body, It leaves the body at its own discretion, mostly at night or via meditation. The Body is a Temple for Soul, isn't that what it says in the Bible? I choose to believe what Jesus said about Elijah and to me that speaks volumes. How can you read that and still think there is no such thing as reincarnation. Apparently you and others are still seeing as if through a glass darkly. To each his/her own. Think what you like.!!!
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Jessiealan
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SOUL
Jan 19, 2017 23:20:07 GMT -5
Post by Jessiealan on Jan 19, 2017 23:20:07 GMT -5
Chef, when it comes to religion, you are smug and sanctimonious to the point of actually believing you and your denomination are the only people worthy of being called Christians. What a sad, sorry, narrow minded situation. You may believe you are a Saint but to achieve that honor, you, first, would have to be human. I would not opt to trade places with you for anything. I have no concerns about my status as a Christian, but certainly have less confidence in yours. Jessie, I've known Chefmate for quite a few years. She and I disagree on lots of things. Even though we're both Christians we don't always agree on the interpretation of things. But I've never known her to be smug - she's not that sort of person at all. She's kind, caring, and has a big heart and a lovely (and at times wicked!) sense of humour. I don't think she's being sanctimonious either; she's had a kind of religious conversion and we all know that converts are more passionate than most of those brought up as Christians. I don't think she believes she's a saint and I don't think she's narrow-minded either. Over the years she's often surprised me with what she's said and done. In real life nobody gets to trade places; but I do think maybe a little understanding of how her life has changed since she found her faith in Christ wouldn't be a bad idea. It came to her much later in life than with some people but I have always felt warmth and affection towards her and always will. For me she is a thoroughly lovable human being. I'm not an Evangelical Christian; I'm a 'Broad Church' type of liberal Protestant. But I understand her point of view both because I was born and raised as a Presbyterian and because I've known many other born-again Christians. Frankly, most of them have been thoroughly kind and decent people. Like Chefmate. Lin, I believe you and Mike have mentioned all this numerous times on this site alone. But, you see, it does not change anything. Even if Chef is the finest person in the world, she still tries to undermine all religious belief except her own and infer all who do not follow her rigid ideas of biblical interpretation are going to hell. You want to overlook all that, but she slings it in everyone's faces, very often. Save your endorsements.
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ladylinda
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Jan 20, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -5
Post by ladylinda on Jan 20, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -5
The Bible is fairly clear; when we die that's it till the Last Judgement. So either the Bible is wrong (my own personal belief based on personal experience of apparent individual survival of death, the experiences of others and years of study on the subject) or it's self-contradictory. Let's remember the Bible was written by men (and almost exclusively men in the gendered sense of that word). They weren't sitting there taking down dictation from God like shorthand typists. The Bible was written over hundreds of years by people who had their own ideas, their visions and so on. It wasn't even finally codified into a 'canon' until around 400 B.C. by a group of Rabbinical scholars. Some of the books they left out are included in some versions of the Bible; some aren't. We're talking about a book that was generated by 'committee' rather than divine inspiration. And the New Testament canon wasn't finally decided on till Constantine and the Council of Nicea. Even then a lot of 'heretical' Christians continued to use other books that the council had rejected. I don't believe a bunch of committees, however well intentioned, represent the word of God rather than the words of men. I strongly disagree with you, but like the situation with Scottish Lassie, we have reached an impasse and no point of further discussion for me at least. Well, those are the facts. It's a pity because for me a faith that can't face discussion is on very weak ground.
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