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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 2:24:26 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 17, 2017 2:24:26 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I did manage to use both links and these statements by Pastor Piper is ofcourse his interpretation. of what is written in the Bible which is what anyone who believes has to rely on. Jesus used the term sleep during His lifetime when in preaching mode, the only time He said anything different was when he was on the cross and He said to the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise this day. To me, Paradise and Hell are both different places from the Earth, so count as being different dimensions, that has to be a fact, surely? Yet no one will believe in other dimensions when I talk about them. Very strange.!!! Now, if all the people are asleep and know nothing until Christ's resurrection where those who believe will be with Him in Paradise, then how was He able to speak to someone who was dead, before His resurrection. It still doesn't make sense. I've given you scripture concerning your original question. Paradise no longer exists as Jesus rose from the dead and now believers, upon death, immediately go to be with Him in heaven...the body sleeps but the spirit is alive with Jesus. I have no recollection of Jesus speaking to someone who was dead...do you have any more recollection of it? You will also note, nowhere in the bible is that damnable lie of purgatory because it is only a lie from hell. When Lazarus died, Jesus went to his tomb and called out, Lazarus, come forth, but I don't think this is what you are referring to. Hi Chefmate51, It is Matthew 17. I got it mixed up with Gethsemane where Jesus went to pray with His Disciples and they couldn't stay awake. So it was Moses and Elijah with whom Jesus was talking.weren't they both dead? When Jesus was talking with His Disciples, He told them that Elijah had come again and the Disciples understood that to mean that Elijah and John the Baptist were one and the same. How could that be? Unless there is such a thing as reincarnation. The body does not sleep it has rotted away, and what about the people who have been cremated? The person whom I saw in my lounge room was shining like the stars so that is just like how Jesus looked when He was tranfigured and why did Jesus tell the Disciples not to tell anyone. No doubt because the people would say that Jesus was cohorting with Satan which seems to be what is always said when something unnatural happens.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 14:43:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 14:43:15 GMT -5
I've given you scripture concerning your original question. Paradise no longer exists as Jesus rose from the dead and now believers, upon death, immediately go to be with Him in heaven...the body sleeps but the spirit is alive with Jesus. I have no recollection of Jesus speaking to someone who was dead...do you have any more recollection of it? You will also note, nowhere in the bible is that damnable lie of purgatory because it is only a lie from hell. When Lazarus died, Jesus went to his tomb and called out, Lazarus, come forth, but I don't think this is what you are referring to. Hi Chefmate51, It is Matthew 17. I got it mixed up with Gethsemane where Jesus went to pray with His Disciples and they couldn't stay awake. So it was Moses and Elijah with whom Jesus was talking.weren't they both dead? When Jesus was talking with His Disciples, He told them that Elijah had come again and the Disciples understood that to mean that Elijah and John the Baptist were one and the same. How could that be? Unless there is such a thing as reincarnation. The body does not sleep it has rotted away, and what about the people who have been cremated? The person whom I saw in my lounge room was shining like the stars so that is just like how Jesus looked when He was tranfigured and why did Jesus tell the Disciples not to tell anyone. No doubt because the people would say that Jesus was cohorting with Satan which seems to be what is always said when something unnatural happens. I'll get back to you on this...lots to research
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ladylinda
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 16:06:06 GMT -5
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Post by ladylinda on Jan 17, 2017 16:06:06 GMT -5
Jessie, I've known Chefmate for quite a few years. She and I disagree on lots of things. Even though we're both Christians we don't always agree on the interpretation of things. But I've never known her to be smug - she's not that sort of person at all. She's kind, caring, and has a big heart and a lovely (and at times wicked!) sense of humour. I don't think she's being sanctimonious either; she's had a kind of religious conversion and we all know that converts are more passionate than most of those brought up as Christians. I don't think she believes she's a saint and I don't think she's narrow-minded either. Over the years she's often surprised me with what she's said and done. In real life nobody gets to trade places; but I do think maybe a little understanding of how her life has changed since she found her faith in Christ wouldn't be a bad idea. It came to her much later in life than with some people but I have always felt warmth and affection towards her and always will. For me she is a thoroughly lovable human being. I'm not an Evangelical Christian; I'm a 'Broad Church' type of liberal Protestant. But I understand her point of view both because I was born and raised as a Presbyterian and because I've known many other born-again Christians. Frankly, most of them have been thoroughly kind and decent people. Like Chefmate. Lin, you and Mike give this personal testimonial every time someone disagrees with Chef. It's very nice you have some kind of special relationship, but that does not mean "any" others have to agree or .. should agree. Chef can hold her own and when you jump in, it amounts to bully tactics for whoever might be disagreeihng with her at any given moment. Think about it. Well, it's certainly not meant to be any kind of bullying. But we like Chef very much and I felt that if anything SL was misunderstanding her basic nature. I'm loyal to people unless they give me reason to revise my opinion of them. And for what it's worth I disagree with both Chef and SL on this particular issue.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 18:47:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 18:47:55 GMT -5
Linda, what part do you disagree with and why? I'm curious.
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ladylinda
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 19:05:24 GMT -5
Post by ladylinda on Jan 17, 2017 19:05:24 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement.
But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on.
So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 19:40:54 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jan 17, 2017 19:40:54 GMT -5
Lin, you and Mike give this personal testimonial every time someone disagrees with Chef. It's very nice you have some kind of special relationship, but that does not mean "any" others have to agree or .. should agree. Chef can hold her own and when you jump in, it amounts to bully tactics for whoever might be disagreeihng with her at any given moment. Think about it. Well, it's certainly not meant to be any kind of bullying. But we like Chef very much and I felt that if anything SL was misunderstanding her basic nature. I'm loyal to people unless they give me reason to revise my opinion of them. And for what it's worth I disagree with both Chef and SL on this particular issue. I actually wondered whether you and Mike realize how often you guys repeat the same flowery recital over and over again. I believe we are all convinced.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 19:41:44 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 17, 2017 19:41:44 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement. But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on. So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done. Hi Ladylinda, Read Matthew 17. Where Jesus is talking with Moses and Elijah, both people who are supposed to be asleep and knowing nothing, and what about the chasm that is suppose to exist between the dead and the living? yet Jesus was talking with them. And why did Jesus say that Elijah had come again and the Disciples took that to mean John the Baptist, which all fits in to the belief of reincarnation. Elijah was on earth, then after he died, came back as John the Baptist. Even if it wasn't John the Baptist, it was definitely someone. And why did Jesus tell His Disciples not to mention what they had witnessed? Anything that isn't earthly, therefore supernatural, is always thought to be the work of the Devil so liable to be put to death or incarcerated in a ( loony bin ) Mental Asylum. In whom can we trust? I trust in the experiences that I am being given because it seems to be the most logical.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 20:07:07 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 17, 2017 20:07:07 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement. But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on. So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done. Hi LadyLinda, I may believe in reincarnation because of the experiences that I have, but I'm not the one that labeled Chefmate51 as being sanctimonious. I think she is a pious person who loves to declare her beliefs. There is nothing wrong in that.!!! I do it myself.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 21:18:21 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 21:18:21 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement. But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on. So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done. Hi LadyLinda, I may believe in reincarnation because of the experiences that I have, but I'm not the one that labeled Chefmate51 as being sanctimonious. I think she is a pious person who loves to declare her beliefs. There is nothing wrong in that.!!! I do it myself. but how do you justify reincarnation when the bible specifically states: Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment Paul spoke many times of being with the Lord upon death....and many times Jesus spoke of hell that it is immediate upon death. IF reincarnation exists, why did Jesus not once speak of it? that should be your first clue it is not going to happen and I don't want to see you pass away with a belief that will damn you to hell.
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 21:19:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 21:19:57 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement. But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on. So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done. that's odd, because I cannot find the bible teaches anything but that our spirit either goes to heaven or hell upon death...who told you otherwise?
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 21:22:13 GMT -5
Well, it's certainly not meant to be any kind of bullying. But we like Chef very much and I felt that if anything SL was misunderstanding her basic nature. I'm loyal to people unless they give me reason to revise my opinion of them. And for what it's worth I disagree with both Chef and SL on this particular issue. I actually wondered whether you and Mike realize how often you guys repeat the same flowery recital over and over again. I believe we are all convinced. why do you keep banging on her over it?
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 23:11:14 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jan 17, 2017 23:11:14 GMT -5
She replied to my post, I replied to her reply.
Why do you care?
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SOUL
Jan 17, 2017 23:52:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 23:52:55 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement. But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on. So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done. Hi LadyLinda, I may believe in reincarnation because of the experiences that I have, but I'm not the one that labeled Chefmate51 as being sanctimonious. I think she is a pious person who loves to declare her beliefs. There is nothing wrong in that.!!! I do it myself. yes, SL did not attck me.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 5:00:28 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 18, 2017 5:00:28 GMT -5
Hi LadyLinda, I may believe in reincarnation because of the experiences that I have, but I'm not the one that labeled Chefmate51 as being sanctimonious. I think she is a pious person who loves to declare her beliefs. There is nothing wrong in that.!!! I do it myself. but how do you justify reincarnation when the bible specifically states: Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment Paul spoke many times of being with the Lord upon death....and many times Jesus spoke of hell that it is immediate upon death. IF reincarnation exists, why did Jesus not once speak of it? that should be your first clue it is not going to happen and I don't want to see you pass away with a belief that will damn you to hell. Hi Chefmate51,That is quite true that man is appointed to die once. Elijah is not John the Baptist they are two different person's who lived at different times and had separate missions in life. Yet Jesus said to his Disciples that Elijah had come again and the Disciples took that to mean John the Baptist. Apparently they believed that Reincarnation was possible or they would have asked Jesus what he was talking about. Matthew17.
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SOUL
Jan 18, 2017 5:13:46 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 18, 2017 5:13:46 GMT -5
I disagree with Scottish Lassie about reincarnation; I know that (having read it in the Bible) on death we're supposed to stay dead till the Day of Judgement. But personal experience plus a lot of research has convinced me that we do survive death and that our souls live on. So that's what I meant;unfortunately I didn't express it as well as I could have done. that's odd, because I cannot find the bible teaches anything but that our spirit either goes to heaven or hell upon death...who told you otherwise? Hi Chefmate51, we know there is apparently only one Hell, but St.Paul mentions three Heavens so to which one do the dead in Christ go? It seems that the information contained in the Bible is not all that it is thought to be, so once again we have a dilemma.
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