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SOUL
Jan 14, 2017 18:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 14, 2017 18:42:35 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, Only the body dies, Soul still lives.!! By the way, everyone who has died is supposed to be asleep until the resurrection, so why was Jesus able to speak with someone who was dead (I have forgotten who)before he was arrested and taken before Pilate and eventually crucified? I would appreciate an explanation from your own knowledge, not a link.
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SOUL
Jan 14, 2017 22:40:43 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 22:40:43 GMT -5
I use links many times as they are more detailed than my general knowledge but right now I need a little research as this isn't ringing a bell and I just finished reading the book of John today and saw no reference to what you stated.
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SOUL
Jan 14, 2017 23:19:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 23:19:53 GMT -5
Is this the incident you are referring to?
We are commanded not to communicate with the dead so I cannot imagine Jesus would conjur up the deceased.
This happened at His transfiguration and was a different set of circumstances.
Any conjuring up of spirits is forbidden to followers of Jesus as it is witchcraft or sorcery.
The people who practice withcraft only conjure up demons and not deceased humans...the people are being deceived and without repentance will be damned to hell.
This is why I detest Echkanker, you are being deceived as you are connecting with demons, {fallen angels} and most certainly not the Holy Spirit...all Echkanker is God forbides but you are in their grip and it will only lead to your destruction without repentance.
This I tell you from scripture in the bible, not my opinions as my opinions mean nothing....only God's word can change you.
Matthew 17:1-8
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
Here Peter, James and John see Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus. They look real and solid enough that a clearly terrified Peter offers to put up shelters for all three of them. I’m not sure we can classify this event as a true "haunting", but there is no doubt that two people, Moses and Elijah, who were previously dead or taken into heaven, were now alive and in the presence of Jesus and his disciples.
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Jan 15, 2017 4:44:23 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 4:44:23 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, Only the body dies, Soul still lives.!! By the way, everyone who has died is supposed to be asleep until the resurrection, so why was Jesus able to speak with someone who was dead (I have forgotten who)before he was arrested and taken before Pilate and eventually crucified? I would appreciate an explanation from your own knowledge, not a link. I'm hoping this scripture ansers your question...if not, I will bring more. Paul, the apostle, wrote in Phillppians 1:21-24 “For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you” (Philippians 1:21-24). He states when he dies, he will be with Christ immediately which is the ultimate but it was to the believer's advantage in the church at Phillipi for him to remain alive to teach them how to grow in Christ. Also....2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord And Luke 16: 19-31 19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ You see, the beggar died and was carried by angels to Abraham's bosom while the rich man woke up in hell. In all these verses no one is sleeping but each upon death, enters heaven or hell.
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SOUL
Jan 15, 2017 16:39:33 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 15, 2017 16:39:33 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, Somewhere in the Bible it does say that people who have died will sleep until the last days when Jesus comes again then the bodies will be resurrected for the last judgment (I think). I do believe in one of your quotes you did mention that the dead know nothing, so that is in line with the fact that they are asleep? This is just what I remember.
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SOUL
Jan 15, 2017 17:26:58 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 17:26:58 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, Somewhere in the Bible it does say that people who have died will sleep until the last days when Jesus comes again then the bodies will be resurrected for the last judgment (I think). I do believe in one of your quotes you did mention that the dead know nothing, so that is in line with the fact that they are asleep? This is just what I remember. I trust Pastor John Piper and in this article he explains the subject far better than I ever can: www.desiringgod.org/interviews/does-my-soul-sleep-after-deathwww.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html
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SOUL
Jan 15, 2017 23:02:48 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 15, 2017 23:02:48 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, Somewhere in the Bible it does say that people who have died will sleep until the last days when Jesus comes again then the bodies will be resurrected for the last judgment (I think). I do believe in one of your quotes you did mention that the dead know nothing, so that is in line with the fact that they are asleep? This is just what I remember. I trust Pastor John Piper and in this article he explains the subject far better than I ever can: www.desiringgod.org/interviews/does-my-soul-sleep-after-deathwww.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.htmlHi Chefmate51, I did manage to use both links and these statements by Pastor Piper is ofcourse his interpretation. of what is written in the Bible which is what anyone who believes has to rely on. Jesus used the term sleep during His lifetime when in preaching mode, the only time He said anything different was when he was on the cross and He said to the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise this day. To me, Paradise and Hell are both different places from the Earth, so count as being different dimensions, that has to be a fact, surely? Yet no one will believe in other dimensions when I talk about them. Very strange.!!! Now, if all the people are asleep and know nothing until Christ's resurrection where those who believe will be with Him in Paradise, then how was He able to speak to someone who was dead, before His resurrection. It still doesn't make sense.
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SOUL
Jan 15, 2017 23:26:02 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 15, 2017 23:26:02 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I was reading your quote again Luke 22-24 and just wondered how the rich fellow was able to see Lazarus at Abraham's side if he was in Hell and Abraham was in Heaven. It seems to me to be an impossibility. It's a wonder anyone can interpret the Bible truthfully?
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Jan 16, 2017 13:06:17 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 13:06:17 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I was reading your quote again Luke 22-24 and just wondered how the rich fellow was able to see Lazarus at Abraham's side if he was in Hell and Abraham was in Heaven. It seems to me to be an impossibility. It's a wonder anyone can interpret the Bible truthfully? Luke 16:26 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. It's not impossible to interpret the bible if the Holy Spirit is your teacher....keep in mind Satan knows more bible than we will ever know and is a master at deceiving and twisting scriptures....example, the roman catholic church is a very good example of twisted doctrine that people have put their misplaced faith in.
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Jessiealan
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SOUL
Jan 16, 2017 14:05:25 GMT -5
Post by Jessiealan on Jan 16, 2017 14:05:25 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I was reading your quote again Luke 22-24 and just wondered how the rich fellow was able to see Lazarus at Abraham's side if he was in Hell and Abraham was in Heaven. It seems to me to be an impossibility. It's a wonder anyone can interpret the Bible truthfully? Luke 16:26 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. It's not impossible to interpret the bible if the Holy Spirit is your teacher....keep in mind Satan knows more bible than we will ever know and is a master at deceiving and twisting scriptures....example, the roman catholic church is a very good example of twisted doctrine that people have put their misplaced faith in. Chef, when it comes to religion, you are smug and sanctimonious to the point of actually believing you and your denomination are the only people worthy of being called Christians. What a sad, sorry, narrow minded situation. You may believe you are a Saint but to achieve that honor, you, first, would have to be human. I would not opt to trade places with you for anything. I have no concerns about my status as a Christian, but certainly have less confidence in yours.
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SOUL
Jan 16, 2017 16:37:18 GMT -5
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 16, 2017 16:37:18 GMT -5
Hi Jessiealan, Chefmate51 is only quoting Scripture that doesn't mean that she is what you say. She is definitely a very pious person but is still in the same boat as other religious people being sure of the true interpretation of the Bible.
Chefmate51 quotes that there is a great chasm between the dead and the living but I and so many other people haven't found this to be true because of our personal experiences. Jesus was seen talking to someone who was dead, so where is the chasm?
Chefmate51 reckons that Satan is to blame but wouldn't Jesus have been aware of that and not have participated, perhaps even sent him packing? But none of that happened. Surely Jesus was not fooled.!!! It seems that our understanding of the Bible is still being seen through a glass darkly.
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ladylinda
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SOUL
Jan 16, 2017 17:53:51 GMT -5
Post by ladylinda on Jan 16, 2017 17:53:51 GMT -5
Luke 16:26 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. It's not impossible to interpret the bible if the Holy Spirit is your teacher....keep in mind Satan knows more bible than we will ever know and is a master at deceiving and twisting scriptures....example, the roman catholic church is a very good example of twisted doctrine that people have put their misplaced faith in. Chef, when it comes to religion, you are smug and sanctimonious to the point of actually believing you and your denomination are the only people worthy of being called Christians. What a sad, sorry, narrow minded situation. You may believe you are a Saint but to achieve that honor, you, first, would have to be human. I would not opt to trade places with you for anything. I have no concerns about my status as a Christian, but certainly have less confidence in yours. Jessie, I've known Chefmate for quite a few years. She and I disagree on lots of things. Even though we're both Christians we don't always agree on the interpretation of things. But I've never known her to be smug - she's not that sort of person at all. She's kind, caring, and has a big heart and a lovely (and at times wicked!) sense of humour. I don't think she's being sanctimonious either; she's had a kind of religious conversion and we all know that converts are more passionate than most of those brought up as Christians. I don't think she believes she's a saint and I don't think she's narrow-minded either. Over the years she's often surprised me with what she's said and done. In real life nobody gets to trade places; but I do think maybe a little understanding of how her life has changed since she found her faith in Christ wouldn't be a bad idea. It came to her much later in life than with some people but I have always felt warmth and affection towards her and always will. For me she is a thoroughly lovable human being. I'm not an Evangelical Christian; I'm a 'Broad Church' type of liberal Protestant. But I understand her point of view both because I was born and raised as a Presbyterian and because I've known many other born-again Christians. Frankly, most of them have been thoroughly kind and decent people. Like Chefmate.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:01:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 20:01:37 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, I did manage to use both links and these statements by Pastor Piper is ofcourse his interpretation. of what is written in the Bible which is what anyone who believes has to rely on. Jesus used the term sleep during His lifetime when in preaching mode, the only time He said anything different was when he was on the cross and He said to the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise this day. To me, Paradise and Hell are both different places from the Earth, so count as being different dimensions, that has to be a fact, surely? Yet no one will believe in other dimensions when I talk about them. Very strange.!!! Now, if all the people are asleep and know nothing until Christ's resurrection where those who believe will be with Him in Paradise, then how was He able to speak to someone who was dead, before His resurrection. It still doesn't make sense. I've given you scripture concerning your original question. Paradise no longer exists as Jesus rose from the dead and now believers, upon death, immediately go to be with Him in heaven...the body sleeps but the spirit is alive with Jesus. I have no recollection of Jesus speaking to someone who was dead...do you have any more recollection of it? You will also note, nowhere in the bible is that damnable lie of purgatory because it is only a lie from hell. When Lazarus died, Jesus went to his tomb and called out, Lazarus, come forth, but I don't think this is what you are referring to.
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SOUL
Jan 16, 2017 21:23:34 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jan 16, 2017 21:23:34 GMT -5
Chef, when it comes to religion, you are smug and sanctimonious to the point of actually believing you and your denomination are the only people worthy of being called Christians. What a sad, sorry, narrow minded situation. You may believe you are a Saint but to achieve that honor, you, first, would have to be human. I would not opt to trade places with you for anything. I have no concerns about my status as a Christian, but certainly have less confidence in yours. Jessie, I've known Chefmate for quite a few years. She and I disagree on lots of things. Even though we're both Christians we don't always agree on the interpretation of things. But I've never known her to be smug - she's not that sort of person at all. She's kind, caring, and has a big heart and a lovely (and at times wicked!) sense of humour. I don't think she's being sanctimonious either; she's had a kind of religious conversion and we all know that converts are more passionate than most of those brought up as Christians. I don't think she believes she's a saint and I don't think she's narrow-minded either. Over the years she's often surprised me with what she's said and done. In real life nobody gets to trade places; but I do think maybe a little understanding of how her life has changed since she found her faith in Christ wouldn't be a bad idea. It came to her much later in life than with some people but I have always felt warmth and affection towards her and always will. For me she is a thoroughly lovable human being. I'm not an Evangelical Christian; I'm a 'Broad Church' type of liberal Protestant. But I understand her point of view both because I was born and raised as a Presbyterian and because I've known many other born-again Christians. Frankly, most of them have been thoroughly kind and decent people. Like Chefmate. Lin, you and Mike give this personal testimonial every time someone disagrees with Chef. It's very nice you have some kind of special relationship, but that does not mean "any" others have to agree or .. should agree. Chef can hold her own and when you jump in, it amounts to bully tactics for whoever might be disagreeihng with her at any given moment. Think about it.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:34:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 22:34:57 GMT -5
Hi Chefmate51, Only the body dies, Soul still lives.!! By the way, everyone who has died is supposed to be asleep until the resurrection, so why was Jesus able to speak with someone who was dead (I have forgotten who)before he was arrested and taken before Pilate and eventually crucified? I would appreciate an explanation from your own knowledge, not a link. try as I might, I cannot find the situation you describe
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