Erasmus
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Post by Erasmus on Jun 5, 2010 18:58:37 GMT -5
As far as I recall, my answers were to the second quiz since all the others were specifically aimed at women and I thought the first biassed the questions by consistently putting women in a bad or inferior light whenever they differed from a masculine ideal. This is one of my main reasons for disliking feminism, since I think it much more important to view much of traditional femininity in a positive light for men to aspire to as well and to liberate themselves from the traditional gender role, and was brought up in just that way, to respect the things traditional to women as matriarchal home-managers above those traditional to men, but in the spirit of equality, men just as capable of doing and being the same. www.gotoquiz.com/are_you_a_feministwww.blogthings.com/areyouafeministquiz/Result: « You Are 100% Feminist You are a total feminist. This doesn't mean you're a man hater (in fact, you may be a man). You just think that men and women should be treated equally. It's a simple idea but somehow complicated for the world to put into action. » I don't think that my answers do actually show me feminist at all. I think they are the answers that any normal person would give, especially women who can't stand feminists forever telling them how inferior all things feminine including themselves are to the stomping male lords of creation (or destruction!) and everything they think of as equality is really part of a plot by the Mighty Monstrous Male to keep them in the subordination of having to treat and respect men as they expect men to treat and respect them. 'Feminism' to me (and most people I know of both sexes) means the 3 rd & 4 th options on the last test - feeble females terrified of men hating and contemptuous of women who liberated themselves from that belief in their own inferiority or never had it! www.ifeminists.com/introduction/quiz/jumpoffthebridge.com/2009/04/feminist-quiz-time.htmlwww.unm.edu/~dolguin1/Quiz-%20Feminist%20email%20version.docspacefem.com/quizzes/militantfeminist/
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Post by mouse on Jun 6, 2010 15:35:42 GMT -5
dunno if i am a feminist or not..and to be honest i really dont care one way or the other ..BUT i believe in equal pay..equal oportunity and have always insisted total equality in my home and private life...but value the differences between women and men however i dont think girls and boys should be educated together after the age of around 11...its not good for the boys we should value the differences between the sexes...each have their strengths and positives and ofset each other...nature afterall knows best do we really want to end up with feminine wimpy men and overly assertive women equality not superiority should be the aim
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Erasmus
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"We do not take prisoners - we liberate them" - http://www.aeonbytegnosticradio.com
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Post by Erasmus on Jun 6, 2010 15:54:50 GMT -5
Strong women don't have to be pushy and family men don't have to b wimpy either. What concerns me is the feeling that what has always been expected of men is held as an ideal for both sexes and what has been traditional for women as something inferior for both sexes to avoid. I don't think the things you mention generally have anything to do with modern feminism beyond that feminists seem to be the only people who still don't believe they exist.
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Post by beth on Jun 6, 2010 19:07:47 GMT -5
I'm with Mouse. The only thing feminism means to me is equal pay and equal opportunity. The old stereotypical descriptions seem rather 2 dimensional, don't you think? People don't think much like that any more, do they?
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Post by mouse on Jun 7, 2010 2:04:01 GMT -5
my grandmother was a sufferagette and her mother and grandmother had always been very interested in rights for women and active in that area...ie better care for women..equal eduducation..equality under the law etc etc [taking into acount the times in which they lived] they were very forward thinking and so were some of the men in the family] but i think if they had realised just where it was all going to lead and some of the extreemes they possibly would never have bothered....
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Post by beth on Jun 7, 2010 7:06:15 GMT -5
my grandmother was a sufferagette and her mother and grandmother had always been very interested in rights for women and active in that area...ie better care for women..equal eduducation..equality under the law etc etc [taking into acount the times in which they lived] they were very forward thinking and so were some of the men in the family] but i think if they had realised just where it was all going to lead and some of the extreemes they possibly would never have bothered.... I have to admire their efforts, mouse. I had an aunt who was a lawyer - a profession with fairly few females at the time. She was very self sufficient - never married but had several "fiancees", what we now call "long term relationships", traveled extensively, treated herself to beautiful clothes, nice home, etc.. She was a good role model. But, I suppose we have to be true to ourselves. I somehow needed to have children and a family to nurture. Not better or worse, just different. It seems to me we have to consider individuals and not try to lump everyone into one group or other. Sociology makes me feel tired.
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Post by sadie on Jun 7, 2010 10:29:17 GMT -5
Well....don't know what I would be labeled either. I believe in the equal pay for equal job....and all that.....but you have to understand that in Texas I'm surrounded by oilfield work.....I'm not lifting a 100 lb sack of concrete and taking it up a ladder for a job.....(mind you there are some women that can.....more power to them).....whereas in the East there are a lot of factory work that the same jobs can be done by men and women.......so the mind set is a little different. But jobs like attys, sure....woman can be as much as pain in the butt as a man.....(lol)....and all that......if men could have babies.....I would be all for that also.....but have a feeling the population would die out if left to them to do that......(big stinkin' wussies)........
So......what does that make me.....don't know.....but please hold the door open for me so I don't have to hurt you......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2010 11:28:31 GMT -5
If men could have babies, they'd hire women to bear the children. Or Mexicans.
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Erasmus
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Post by Erasmus on Jun 7, 2010 13:14:30 GMT -5
If men could have babies they'd be women! What does concern me is how much feminism is invoked to denigrate personal and family commitments in comparison to more and more commitment to traditionally masculine activities and outlook for both sexes, and how, beneath what can look like sexist hatred of men, feminists show and promote just the same fear of men and relations with them as necessarily submission that feminism once opposed, like these (less the original article than most of the comments identifying themselves as feminist), answered by one of my favourite bloggists far too liberated to align herself with their feminist feebleness. The net effect of the first is not an equal society at all, but an increasingly masculinized one where women are considered inferior unless they follow traditional expectations upon men, (so men are not liberated from them either) and traditionally feminine attitudes are removed from society altogether. When you consider that masculine has been what made money (and war!) and feminine what concerned personal relationships and took pride in itself as an individual, it is no surprise that a society concerned more with monetary economics than with individual freedoms should want to remove any alternative to its values, especially after that alternative did start to look a bit threatening in the 1970s. For me, equality means men being as activ in traditional women's roles as women in men's not women shunning them as inferior. If that busts the Industrial System up (whether under Socialist or Capitalist control is only a disagreement about ownership) so much the better, and so much feminists wanted in the 1970s. Even in the 1980s, many tried to establish alternative communes, but by that time they had fallen into traditional sexist beliefs and did not believe that they could include men without turning into adoring puppies - or something of the sort. My nurse friends used to get Spare Rib - but they kept it in the loo for laughs and emergencies.
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Post by beth on Jun 7, 2010 13:23:20 GMT -5
Quote: If men could have babies they'd be women! What does concern me is how much feminism is invoked to denigrate personal and family commitments in comparison to more and more commitment to traditionally masculine activities and outlook for both sexes
I don't think that's true except perhaps for a few misguided folks. As I said, back a few posts, that description sounds like a 2 dimensional stereotype.
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Post by beth on Jun 7, 2010 19:48:27 GMT -5
If men could have babies, they'd hire women to bear the children. Or Mexicans. Joseph, you guys could not afford us.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2010 19:53:08 GMT -5
you guys could not afford us. History has shown an American woman, at least, will perform the same labor as a man for a lot less money. Then again, so will mexicans.
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Post by sadie on Jun 7, 2010 21:18:20 GMT -5
JosephD........my my my.......oh good grief..........I'm American....my parents are from Mexico which makes me Mexican....I just don't know why you go so far out of you way to be quite so derogatory towards both in so many of your posts.........not every American is a violent horrible person.....and not every Mexican is an illegal moron residing in the U.S.
Truly you miss out on a bunch of special and wonderful people by cutting yourself off on so much of the population.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2010 21:56:36 GMT -5
JosephD........my my my.......oh good grief..........I'm American....my parents are from Mexico which makes me Mexican....I just don't know why you go so far out of you way to be quite so derogatory towards both in so many of your posts I have Spanish-surnamed in-laws and they're as tired of illegal alien culture as much as I am. not every American is a violent horrible person I didn't say they were. I described them as amoral, which is true. and not every Mexican is an illegal moron residing in the U.S. They're either illegal or the offspring of illegals. I, on the other hand, am the offspring of a LEGAL immigrant. BIG difference. Truly you miss out on a bunch of special and wonderful people by cutting yourself off on so much of the population. No, I don't. They're the ones cutting ME off from much of the population.
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Post by sadie on Jun 7, 2010 23:06:27 GMT -5
Ahh....wrong again.....my parents came here LEGALLY over fifty years ago and I happen to be very proud of my Mexican heritage.
I won't go into the other debate here on a thread about feminism. Don't think we will see eye to eye anyway.....so let's just chat about other things.
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