|
Post by Soulman on Feb 8, 2013 17:47:43 GMT -5
Well, if you look at history you can find plenty of examples where Islam has benefited a country. And anyway what do you mean by Islam? It's about as meaningless a term as Christianity. And to put a counter-argument you have to be facing an argument in the first place and there WASN'T one. Just a statement of prejudiced opinion. About a year or so ago I posted a series of links about the many contributions to civilisation by Muslims. Islam, like any belief system - including atheism - can be used as a tool of enlightenment or as a tool of oppression. As you know perfectly well, I'm consistent in who I condemn and who I don't. ANYONE who stands for intolerance or for treating people differently on the basis of gender, race, religion or whatever is IMO on the side of the oppressors. I couldn't care less if it's Stalin or bin Laden - BOTH are evil scumbags. Anymore than I could care less if it's Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH of them IMO are evil scumbags. Moral consistency! If I have to qualify what is meant by Islam, when that should be entirely clear.... One day maybe I, and others too, can attain this mystical state you enjoy of unprejudiced opinion. Islam gave up on progress a long long time ago. It hasn't moved on and it cannot, it is inextricably linked with a book that is claimed to be the word of god - verbatim. No reform and no renaissance, you know what happens to those who get out of line. I asked of an example of where Islam has spread to a country and actually done some good, as a tool of enlightenment it's been an epic fail. More a tool of returning - with the useful ***** - to the 7th century. What amazes me more is how the sisterhood keeps absolutely silent on the status of wimmin in the Islamic sphere of influence. Where's the outrage about Islam on homosexuality? When the EDL have bombed innocent commuters, driven a car bomb into an airport entrance and formed religious vigilate patrols in places like Tower Hamlets, then you can equate them with Islamic fundamentalism, but not before. Indeed. With these recent events, like grooming, acid attacks, murdering etc in the news....where is the condemnation from the looney's like the UAF, Hope Not Hate etc. The silence and hypocrisy is deafening.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 8, 2013 18:04:42 GMT -5
If I have to qualify what is meant by Islam, when that should be entirely clear.... One day maybe I, and others too, can attain this mystical state you enjoy of unprejudiced opinion. Islam gave up on progress a long long time ago. It hasn't moved on and it cannot, it is inextricably linked with a book that is claimed to be the word of god - verbatim. No reform and no renaissance, you know what happens to those who get out of line. I asked of an example of where Islam has spread to a country and actually done some good, as a tool of enlightenment it's been an epic fail. More a tool of returning - with the useful ***** - to the 7th century. What amazes me more is how the sisterhood keeps absolutely silent on the status of wimmin in the Islamic sphere of influence. Where's the outrage about Islam on homosexuality? When the EDL have bombed innocent commuters, driven a car bomb into an airport entrance and formed religious vigilate patrols in places like Tower Hamlets, then you can equate them with Islamic fundamentalism, but not before. Indeed. With these recent events, like grooming, acid attacks, murdering etc in the news....where is the condemnation from the looney's like the UAF, Hope Not Hate etc. The silence and hypocrisy is deafening. I suppose it would be too much to hope, that the loonies such as the UAF have finally woken up to reality...
|
|
|
Post by fretslider on Feb 9, 2013 18:26:42 GMT -5
Preachers of hate who spread their violent word on British TV channels Ofcom, has made a series of rulings against channels which allowed “inflammatory” material to be broadcast in breach of rules which forbid extreme opinions gaining a platform on British television. The cases, disclosed today, include examples of an imam telling viewers that those who disrespect the prophet Mohammed should be killed, and another broadcaster saying homosexuals should be beaten and tortured. The stations were found to have committed serious breaches of the broadcasting code by allowing the extreme opinions to be aired unchallenged. Last night experts warned that the extent and seriousness of the broadcasting breaches raises questions over whether extreme Muslim speakers who were previously confined to small audiences in mosques are able to reach thousands more people by broadcasting intolerant teachings on television. Although the channels have tiny audiences compared to the mainstream, they are targeted at Muslim communities, including people of Pakistani background, with some of the content being broadcast in Urdu and other languages. The cases identified by Ofcom include: * An Islamic scholar who told viewers: “It is your duty ... to kill those who insult Prophet Mohammed.” * A preacher banned from coming to Britain who used the channel - which he co-owns - to say anyone who left Islam should be put to death. * A phone-in presenter who advocated “eliminating” anyone who disrespected Mohammed. In some cases the channels had also breached a rule which states that they must keep recordings of all their output, raising the possibility that other inflammatory material has been broadcast but cannot be traced. With the exception of one radio broadcaster, the channels ruled against by Ofcom are broadcast on the satellite provider Sky. It has no legal responsibility for what is broadcast on the channels it carries. It is up to the stations themselves to make sure they meet Ofcom’s standards and they can be fined or taken off the air if they do not. The disclosure of the rulings by the broadcasting regulator comes despite a report in 2010 which warned that extremist material was being broadcast. Tala Rajab, the researcher who wrote the report for Quilliam, the anti-extremist think-tank, said the fresh findings by Ofcom raised serious questions over the regulation of broadcast material. “Some of these recent incidents have been quite shocking,” he said. “If this had happened in a mosque the police would be right in pursuing a criminal investigation. But because they are being broadcast on television channels for some reason there seems to be little appetite for looking into these extreme messages. “If these kind of comments were made against black people, for example, you can imagine a channel being shut down overnight, particularly if they had incited violence against a minority.” The 2010 report found that the Islam Channel, Britain’s largest Islamic broadcaster, had continued to ignore Ofcom rules about impartiality and allowed controversial viewpoints to be aired despite a fine and other sanctions being imposed. It is not among the subjects of the five Ofcom rulings disclosed today. In December a Leeds radio station, Radio Asian Fever, was fined £4,000 for breaching broadcasting rules in programmes involving a presenter called “Sister Ruby Ramadan”. She told listeners that homosexuals should be beaten and tortured. “If there are two such persons among you, that do this evil, the shameful act, what do you have to do? Torture them; punish them; beat them and give them mental torture,” said the presenter. Jabbar Karim, the station’s managing director, said: “We are very embarrassed. This was a one-off incident which will never be repeated.” Takbeer TV, based in Nottingham, has been found in breach of the code twice in 18 months for programmes which denigrated the minority Ahmadi Muslim sect. Founded in the 19th century its followers are considered by some mainstream Muslims to be misguided or even heretical. Contributors to the most recent programmes investigated by Ofcom said Ahmadis had a “disease” and “monstrous” intentions. Ofcom said Takbeer TV had subjected the sect’s followers to “abusive treatment” and that they would now consider an appropriate sanction such as a fine. An Ofcom spokesman said: “The majority of Islamic channels comply with our rules. However, where we identify issues through our monitoring or complaints we investigate fully and take firm enforcement action.” He said it was Ofcom’s duty to regulate licence holders rather than the responsibility of carriers such as Sky. However, carriers are free to decide which channels they offer, he added. A Sky spokesman said: “Sky operates an open and regulated platform. This means any broadcaster with an appropriate Ofcom licence is free to seek distribution over the satellite platform.” There are 14 Muslim TV free-to-air channels in Britain but their audiences are not measured by BARB, the source of viewing figures. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9859804/Preachers-of-hate-who-spread-their-violent-word-on-British-TV-channels.html
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 10, 2013 3:06:09 GMT -5
Preachers of hate who spread their violent word on British TV channels Ofcom, has made a series of rulings against channels which allowed “inflammatory” material to be broadcast in breach of rules which forbid extreme opinions gaining a platform on British television. The cases, disclosed today, include examples of an imam telling viewers that those who disrespect the prophet Mohammed should be killed, and another broadcaster saying homosexuals should be beaten and tortured. The stations were found to have committed serious breaches of the broadcasting code by allowing the extreme opinions to be aired unchallenged. Last night experts warned that the extent and seriousness of the broadcasting breaches raises questions over whether extreme Muslim speakers who were previously confined to small audiences in mosques are able to reach thousands more people by broadcasting intolerant teachings on television. Although the channels have tiny audiences compared to the mainstream, they are targeted at Muslim communities, including people of Pakistani background, with some of the content being broadcast in Urdu and other languages. The cases identified by Ofcom include: * An Islamic scholar who told viewers: “It is your duty ... to kill those who insult Prophet Mohammed.” * A preacher banned from coming to Britain who used the channel - which he co-owns - to say anyone who left Islam should be put to death. * A phone-in presenter who advocated “eliminating” anyone who disrespected Mohammed. In some cases the channels had also breached a rule which states that they must keep recordings of all their output, raising the possibility that other inflammatory material has been broadcast but cannot be traced. With the exception of one radio broadcaster, the channels ruled against by Ofcom are broadcast on the satellite provider Sky. It has no legal responsibility for what is broadcast on the channels it carries. It is up to the stations themselves to make sure they meet Ofcom’s standards and they can be fined or taken off the air if they do not. The disclosure of the rulings by the broadcasting regulator comes despite a report in 2010 which warned that extremist material was being broadcast. Tala Rajab, the researcher who wrote the report for Quilliam, the anti-extremist think-tank, said the fresh findings by Ofcom raised serious questions over the regulation of broadcast material. “Some of these recent incidents have been quite shocking,” he said. “If this had happened in a mosque the police would be right in pursuing a criminal investigation. But because they are being broadcast on television channels for some reason there seems to be little appetite for looking into these extreme messages. “If these kind of comments were made against black people, for example, you can imagine a channel being shut down overnight, particularly if they had incited violence against a minority.” The 2010 report found that the Islam Channel, Britain’s largest Islamic broadcaster, had continued to ignore Ofcom rules about impartiality and allowed controversial viewpoints to be aired despite a fine and other sanctions being imposed. It is not among the subjects of the five Ofcom rulings disclosed today. In December a Leeds radio station, Radio Asian Fever, was fined £4,000 for breaching broadcasting rules in programmes involving a presenter called “Sister Ruby Ramadan”. She told listeners that homosexuals should be beaten and tortured. “If there are two such persons among you, that do this evil, the shameful act, what do you have to do? Torture them; punish them; beat them and give them mental torture,” said the presenter. Jabbar Karim, the station’s managing director, said: “We are very embarrassed. This was a one-off incident which will never be repeated.” Takbeer TV, based in Nottingham, has been found in breach of the code twice in 18 months for programmes which denigrated the minority Ahmadi Muslim sect. Founded in the 19th century its followers are considered by some mainstream Muslims to be misguided or even heretical. Contributors to the most recent programmes investigated by Ofcom said Ahmadis had a “disease” and “monstrous” intentions. Ofcom said Takbeer TV had subjected the sect’s followers to “abusive treatment” and that they would now consider an appropriate sanction such as a fine. An Ofcom spokesman said: “The majority of Islamic channels comply with our rules. However, where we identify issues through our monitoring or complaints we investigate fully and take firm enforcement action.” He said it was Ofcom’s duty to regulate licence holders rather than the responsibility of carriers such as Sky. However, carriers are free to decide which channels they offer, he added. A Sky spokesman said: “Sky operates an open and regulated platform. This means any broadcaster with an appropriate Ofcom licence is free to seek distribution over the satellite platform.” There are 14 Muslim TV free-to-air channels in Britain but their audiences are not measured by BARB, the source of viewing figures. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9859804/Preachers-of-hate-who-spread-their-violent-word-on-British-TV-channels.html And this is a surprise because??? Had anyone been broadcasting anything defamatory towards the religion of peace, you can be sure that, for one thing, complaints would have flooded in, and for another, the authorities would have come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on the broadcaster(s). It's almost certain that there are many advocates of the RoP whose sole raison d'etre is to monitor things like the media, Wiki etc for such things.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 10, 2013 3:14:35 GMT -5
Well, if you look at history you can find plenty of examples where Islam has benefited a country. We're still waiting for examples of these 'benefits' in recent times, as requested on many occasions by various posters... Indeed, looking further back, what 'benefits' did islam bring that Christianity or Buddhism, to name but two alternatives, did not?
|
|
|
Post by fretslider on Feb 10, 2013 5:11:23 GMT -5
Well, if you look at history you can find plenty of examples where Islam has benefited a country. We're still waiting for examples of these 'benefits' in recent times, as requested on many occasions by various posters... Indeed, looking further back, what 'benefits' did islam bring that Christianity or Buddhism, to name but two alternatives, did not? I took another look at history..... The cupboard was bare....
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 10, 2013 5:30:30 GMT -5
We're still waiting for examples of these 'benefits' in recent times, as requested on many occasions by various posters... Indeed, looking further back, what 'benefits' did islam bring that Christianity or Buddhism, to name but two alternatives, did not? I took another look at history..... The cupboard was bare.... Oh, perchance someone will surprise us all...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 7:02:42 GMT -5
Anymore than I could care less if it's Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH of them IMO are evil scumbags. Moral consistency! When the EDL have bombed innocent commuters, driven a car bomb into an airport entrance and formed religious vigilate patrols in places like Tower Hamlets, then you can equate them with Islamic fundamentalism, but not before. That, Fret is the crux of the matter. Given that FACT, it's insane to hod on to the OPINION that "...Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH ..." Prashna
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 10, 2013 7:32:38 GMT -5
When the EDL have bombed innocent commuters, driven a car bomb into an airport entrance and formed religious vigilate patrols in places like Tower Hamlets, then you can equate them with Islamic fundamentalism, but not before. That, Fret is the crux of the matter. Given that FACT, it's insane to hod on to the OPINION that "...Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH ..." Prashna One is trying to take over somewhere they're not native to; the other is trying to prevent it. Quite how any rational person can compare the two is difficult to understand...
|
|
|
Post by Soulman on Feb 10, 2013 8:05:10 GMT -5
That, Fret is the crux of the matter. Given that FACT, it's insane to hod on to the OPINION that "...Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH ..." Prashna One is trying to take over somewhere they're not native to; the other is trying to prevent it. Quite how any rational person can compare the two is difficult to understand... That is the problem. If anybody dares to speak up, or demonstrate against the religion of peace, they are immediately called racists, islamophobes,xenophobes etc. Meanwhile the appeasers are doing a great job of helping the extremists get their barbaric views across, with little resistance. These appeasers and limp wristed liberals annoy me as much if not more than the actual extremists. To compare a group that spouts bile, disrespects our troops, our country, our traditions, our culture, whilst planting bombs, grooming, treating women like trash, not integrating etc.... with a group that go on demos (where they are actually kettled in a ring fenced pen) make speeches and then escorted away, with nobody killed, raped, bombed etc...... is a poor, sad and grabbing at straws type comparison imo.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 10, 2013 8:11:10 GMT -5
One is trying to take over somewhere they're not native to; the other is trying to prevent it. Quite how any rational person can compare the two is difficult to understand... That is the problem. If anybody dares to speak up, or demonstrate against the religion of peace, they are immediately called racists, islamophobes,xenophobes etc. Meanwhile the appeasers are doing a great job of helping the extremists get their barbaric views across, with little resistance. These appeasers and limp wristed liberals annoy me as much if not more than the actual extremists. To compare a group that spouts bile, disrespects our troops, our country, our traditions, our culture, whilst planting bombs, grooming, treating women like trash, not integrating etc.... with a group that go on demos (where they are actually kettled in a ring fenced pen) make speeches and then escorted away, with nobody killed, raped, bombed etc...... is a poor, sad and grabbing at straws type comparison imo. +1 Nicely put
|
|
|
Post by Soulman on Feb 10, 2013 10:20:37 GMT -5
Anymore than I could care less if it's Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH of them IMO are evil scumbags. Moral consistency! Take a look at this recent video. No violence, locals being interviewed, all colours. The video is over 20 minutes long.....try to stick with it.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 10, 2013 10:23:47 GMT -5
Anymore than I could care less if it's Muslim fundos in Britain or the EDL = BOTH of them IMO are evil scumbags. Moral consistency! Take a look at this recent video. No violence, locals being interviewed, all colours. The video is over 20 minutes long.....try to stick with it. 22 minutes? No chance, sadly, with my connection. Perhaps someone will eventually do a precis - after giving people the chance to watch it, of course
|
|
|
Post by mouse on Feb 26, 2013 4:11:44 GMT -5
""""Feb 8, 2013 at 2:37pmladylinda said: Well, if you look at history you can find plenty of examples where Islam has benefited a country.
And anyway what do you mean by Islam?"""""
have looked at history and can find no benefits that islam has provided for a country...and to be more specific for the uk what i have found is 1400 yrs of ..poverty financial and of mind...murder..disfigurement..intimidation..slavery..rape and theft .. of unimaginable wealth along side unimaginable poverty..i have found unequaled hypocracy ..and callous disregard for life..lack of tollorance..bias and callousness and a view of islam by its adherents which in no way matches the realities of history..infact there is a distinct bann on things islamic which dont match the spin and lies of reality... a lack of knowledge and refusal of historical which is frightening..even when those facts come from reputable muslim historians and chroniclers..they are swept aside as they dont fit the bill of the spin
as for what is ment by islam...lawdy.. those things done in the name of islam and for the benefits of muslims and islam by muslims who are followers of the prophet..it couldnt be simpler to understand neither is the agenda of islam from the days of mohamid and the companians..right through to todays bin laden...mullah omar...quatada etc etc the followers of islam have used violence and threats..theft and intimidation..murder and slavery to aquire what ever they set their greedy little eyes on in the quest for a world whide umah.. the way they can disregard truth..practise hypocracy and lies to their own ends is mindbending as is their beliefe in their own indoctrination spin and lies .. the bigest bunch of bullies on the planet who threaten and stamp their feet like three yr olds not getting their own way and when that doesnt work they whinge about victimhood and play the misunderstood victim
|
|
|
Post by Soulman on Mar 3, 2013 12:51:29 GMT -5
|
|