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Post by mouse on May 30, 2010 2:19:23 GMT -5
i shall look out for those books have you read any of CJ Sansom.....well writen of the period lots of detail...they are actually murder mysterys but very well writen...gives a background to the period from a lawyers perspective...well worth a read all though not about henry as such...it gives another perspective into life the titles of two are ..FIRE and DISSOLUTION and another whose title i cannot remeber is about henrys ""progress"" to york good storys
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Post by gabriel on May 30, 2010 4:58:30 GMT -5
No mouse I've never even heard of him. But...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._SansomHe came to prominence with his series set in the reign of Henry VIII in the 16th century, whose main character is the hunchbacked lawyer Matthew Shardlake. Shardlake works on commission initially from Thomas Cromwell in Dissolution and Dark Fire and then Thomas Cranmer in Sovereign and Revelation. The BBC have commissioned an adaptation of Dissolution with the actor Kenneth Branagh set to star as Shardlake. The rest of the Shardlake books are expected to follow. C. J. Sansom has been consulted on the series, which is in the final stages of negotiation I don't think the books have ever been published here. I never came across Ives until I found him in a London book store. I'll keep an eye out for Sansom's stories. Thanks for the tip.
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Post by gabriel on Jun 5, 2010 5:39:46 GMT -5
This is Anne Boleyn's signature. Anne the quene. I've seen her psalter at Hever Castle and read the letters Henry wrote to her when he was pursuing her. Really hard to believe that it was the same man who sent her to the block. But then, no-one told Henry that he couldn't do something.
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Post by mouse on Jun 6, 2010 15:27:50 GMT -5
put not they trust in princes...pretty good maxim
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Post by gabriel on Jun 7, 2010 5:04:51 GMT -5
Especially not that one.englishhistory.net/tudor/lovelett.htmlMy mistress and friend: I and my heart put ourselves in your hands, begging you to have them suitors for your good favour, and that your affection for them should not grow less through absence. For it would be a great pity to increase their sorrow since absence does it sufficiently, and more than ever I could have thought possible reminding us of a point in astronomy, which is, that the longer the days are the farther off is the sun, and yet the more fierce. So it is with our love, for by absence we are parted, yet nevertheless it keeps its fervour, at least on my side, and I hope on yours also: assuring you that on my side the ennui of absence is already too much for me: and when I think of the increase of what I must needs suffer it would be well nigh unbearable for me were it not for the firm hope I have and as I cannot be with you in person, I am sending you the nearest possible thing to that, namely, my picture set in a bracelet, with the whole device which you already know. Wishing myself in their place when it shall please you. This by the hand of Your loyal servant and friend H. Rex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No more to you at this present mine own darling for lack of time but that I would you were in my arms or I in yours for I think it long since I kissed you. Written after the killing of an hart at a xj. of the clock minding with God's grace tomorrow mightily timely to kill another: by the hand of him which I trust shortly shall be yours. Henry R. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mine own sweetheart, these shall be to advertise you of the great loneliness that I find here since your departing, for I ensure you methinketh the time longer since your departing now last than I was wont to do a whole fortnight: I think your kindness and my fervents of love causeth it, for otherwise I would not have thought it possible that for so little a while it should have grieved me, but now that I am coming toward you methinketh my pains been half released.... Wishing myself (specially an evening) in my sweetheart's arms, whose pretty dukkys I trust shortly to kiss. Written with the hand of him that was, is, and shall be yours by his will.H.R. Some of his love letters to Anne. H'm, by his will. Anne should have had her 16th century equivalent of running shoes on.
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Post by mouse on Jun 12, 2010 5:08:55 GMT -5
and Elizatheth the remarkable surviour..... ""much suspected of me..nothing proved can be""
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Post by gabriel on Jun 12, 2010 6:09:16 GMT -5
Well, let's talk Elizabeth. I'm amazed she ever lived long enough to be crowned. If I was betting on her survival I'd be betting she'd be gone soon after Anne died.
Charmed? Probably. I mean, poor kid. Her father killed her mother then made her a bas****. Jeez Dad, thanks. I'm really feeling the love.
All the stepmothers until Katherine Parr who is a mother to her. Parr marries Seymour and the abuse begins all over again.
He used Parr to get to Elizabeth. I'm certain of that. Coming into her bedroom. Cutting her dress while Parr held her. Which indicates an extreme radar malfunction on Parr's part.
But Kate Ashley knew that things weren't right.
Let's face it. Elizabeth had definite problems with men.
Which is why she remained the Virgin Queen. IMO.
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Post by mouse on Jun 12, 2010 8:22:04 GMT -5
but did she remain a virgin if so was it by choice ?? or was it that she [as has been reported HAD a disability or malformation in the sexual area or did she in fact get pregnant by seymour at a young age and the birth or abortion so horrific it put her off for life she certainly apeared to like men in prefference to women..her flirting..speech .. vanity and dancing point to her being very much a woman or was it simply that she knew the perils of marriage where she would be pushed to being very much 2nd fiddle..a queen on paper but what a splendid mind...to survive to her 70,s was indeed a no mean feat..
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Post by mouse on Jun 12, 2010 8:24:27 GMT -5
i have read she got along very well with anne of cleeves as of course did henry...who used to go to see anne for a good game of chess and conversation
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Post by gabriel on Jun 12, 2010 8:37:14 GMT -5
You'd have to ask someone way more informed than me about Elizabeth's virginity.
I don't know.
I tend to believe her as the Virgin Queen because of what Henry had done to her mother .
That girl really would have been through psychological hell.
Unsure of anyone because who knew when they would disappear.
Her father killed her mother.
That's enough, in my book, to make you wary.
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Erasmus
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"We do not take prisoners - we liberate them" - http://www.aeonbytegnosticradio.com
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Post by Erasmus on Jun 12, 2010 18:27:27 GMT -5
Let's not forget that her sister kept her under house arrest in the Tower of London ready to take her head off at the earliest opportunity - which of course she was no way averse to doing to her cousin under very dubious circumstances - just how does one convict the head of a foreign state? This wasn't necessarily prison. The Tower complex held dungeons of course, but it was essentially an old palace and some of its apartments reflected that fact.
It is said that the priest who took her deathbed confession (remember these people were Catholics, just not Roman ones) claimed that she had confirmed her virginity. It's possible that he might lie because the Confessional is - wozaword - 'clandestine' but she never would: that be a certain ticket to Hell in her beliefs.
She could not marry for both conventional reasons that the husband ruled the wife, so that would amount to appointing a man King over her, and for more glaring political reasons of the age that would be repeating exactly what her sister did that led to invasion.
England already had King Philip by agreement with Mary that while alive they kept out of each other's kingdom but whoever lived longer inherited both. That was their agreement regardless of English succession law but accepted throughout Europe in view of Elizabeth being in the Roman Catholic view both illegitimate and excommunicant - the equivalent to being thrown out of the UN. Apart from delicate matters of who ruled which roost, if she had married, she would have been setting the stage for another disputed succession unless she had children - which she may well have been afraid to do either personally or for reasons of State leaving another child king like Edward VI.
There's no evidence that she was averse to her young flirtation with Seymour or her later one with the Earl of Exeter, whom she certainly was in love with. How old was she when Seymour started getting frisky? Young teens certainly, although he has always teased the sisters. Once she hit puberty, sexual interest would be acceptable at that time and even in palaces, life was a lot more earthy than it became later. Later than that, in France Sun King Louis XIV (who definitely has pagan overtones) expected his courtiers to watch him on the lavatory and applaud the royal bowel movement (to be coy about it!)
Her father's famous Holbein portrait shows him posed with a codpiece splitting his breeches like an erection halfway to his chest. No doubt many held the King responsible for national fertility (paganism was always close to the English surface) and maybe it reveals something about of particular king's worries as well. One of her favourite dances is said to have been a rumbustious affair that involved a line of men and line of women raising one leg to push their feet against each other - a sort of confrontational hokey-cokey! She wasn't averse to throwing her tankard of ale over a courtier who annoyed her either!
It is always possible that her preference for male company shows her to have been more Lesbian. That is sometimes the case, that preferring the other sex socially goes with disliking them sexually (something I find quite impossible to understand!)
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Post by gabriel on Jun 13, 2010 0:44:57 GMT -5
No, Elizabeth wasn't averse to having heads chopped off. Just as long as it wasn't hers.
I've just caught up with the 1st episode of The Tudors, Season 4. It's full on Katherine Howard. They're portraying her as a bisexual 17 year old nincompoop. Lovely to look at but that inane giggling is starting to get to me.
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Post by mouse on Jun 13, 2010 3:36:39 GMT -5
Let's not forget that her sister kept her under house arrest in the Tower of London ready to take her head off at the earliest opportunity - which of course she was no way averse to doing to her cousin under very dubious circumstances - just how does one convict the head of a foreign state? -
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Post by mouse on Jun 13, 2010 3:38:36 GMT -5
No, Elizabeth wasn't averse to having heads chopped off. Just as long as it wasn't hers. I've just caught up with the 1st episode of The Tudors, Season 4. It's full on Katherine Howard. They're portraying her as a bisexual 17 year old nincompoop. Lovely to look at but that inane giggling is starting to get to me. that series is way off course historicly...very inacurate katherine was no nincompoop....non of henries wives were
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Post by gabriel on Jun 13, 2010 5:12:26 GMT -5
Mouse, I think you'll find Mary never actually visited London. To the best of my memory, Mary was executed in Framlingham Castle but I'll have to go check.
I agree with you that Mary finally left Elizabeth no room. She backed herself into a corner with all her plotting.
I wonder how Elizabeth, who obviously believed strongly in the divine right of kings, felt about sending a fellow anointed monarch to the chopping block.
Still, Elizabeth could have sent Mary to another country, most likely France, if she really wanted to. I think Cecil was the one driving the engine for Mary's death.
I checked. It was Fotheringay. I knew it started with F.
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