josephdphillips
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January 2015 Member of the Month
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 16, 2016 10:32:12 GMT -5
Unless they're under age and there by force or coercion from family or church. If a minor can be forced to see a doctor or clergyperson, it can be forced to see a conversion therapist. I don't think age is salient to the issue. My point is that attempting to shut down conversion therapy isn't going to stop it. It simply tells religious folks that they're on the right track.
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Post by beth on Aug 16, 2016 12:56:31 GMT -5
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Chelonian
xr
For she shall judge you...!
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Post by Chelonian on Aug 17, 2016 16:36:27 GMT -5
I don't see how any of it is illegal, or why it should be. Like Beth said, no one is being forced into this stuff. It seems to me these institutions force people to choose between religion and sexuality, which is fine with me. Did you not read the link? People are forced into it. Nobody should have choose between anything; furthermore you just said nobody is forced then in the next line you said they are.
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Chelonian
xr
For she shall judge you...!
Posts: 356
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Post by Chelonian on Aug 17, 2016 16:39:07 GMT -5
Unless they're under age and there by force or coercion from family or church. If a minor can be forced to see a doctor or clergyperson, it can be forced to see a conversion therapist. I don't think age is salient to the issue. My point is that attempting to shut down conversion therapy isn't going to stop it. It simply tells religious folks that they're on the right track. Seeing a doctor for a medical reason is very different to seeing a faux psychologist for something that a) cannot be 'cured' and b) doesn't need to be 'cured' as it's not detrimental to health or society. There aren't many minors who are 'forced' to go to a doctor against their wishes. I certainly welcome seeing a doctor when I'm unwell or injured.
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Chelonian
xr
For she shall judge you...!
Posts: 356
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Post by Chelonian on Aug 17, 2016 16:42:53 GMT -5
You're probably right but I'm pretty sure these "therapists" must need to have some kind of certification or other. Just can't believe it's from any legitimate source. Must come from a "soul saving" source rather than a "life saving" source. Conversion therapy is the logical extension of xianity. It's as xian as it gets. Banning conversion therapy only legitimizes it. Banning something doesn't legitimise it at all. Banning it would help reduce the number of people being forced to go to it, as well as show that it's something that should not be tolerated in society where someone's sexuality should not be demonised.
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josephdphillips
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January 2015 Member of the Month
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 17, 2016 17:17:35 GMT -5
Banning something doesn't legitimize it at all. It does to those who feel the laws of man are inferior to the laws of "god." Banning it would help reduce the number of people being forced to go to it, as well as show that it's something that should not be tolerated in society where someone's sexuality should not be demonized. No one was or can be forced to attend one of these institutions, and there's nothing wrong with demonizing someone else's behavior. We do that to the religious types all the time. It's only gay xians who are even tempted to attend these conversion places, and I have to wonder if they're even worthy of "protection," since they're idiots.
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josephdphillips
Global Facilitator
January 2015 Member of the Month
Posts: 3,494
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 17, 2016 17:28:33 GMT -5
Did you not read the link? People are forced into it. I did read the link and I see no reference to any violation of criminal codes. Being pressured into something, short of kidnapping, is still legal, at least where I live. Nobody should have choose between anything Religion and sexuality don't mix. Anyone who claims to be xian and gay will eventually have to choose between the two, notwithstanding any ban on conversion therapy.
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Post by annaj26 on Aug 17, 2016 18:11:40 GMT -5
Did you not read the link? People are forced into it. I did read the link and I see no reference to any violation of criminal codes. Being pressured into something, short of kidnapping, is still legal, at least where I live. Nobody should have choose between anything Religion and sexuality don't mix. Anyone who claims to be xian and gay will eventually have to choose between the two, notwithstanding any ban on conversion therapy. A lot of the "religious", Catholic and Protestant, are mixed up in all kinds of illicit sex activity.
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josephdphillips
Global Facilitator
January 2015 Member of the Month
Posts: 3,494
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 17, 2016 18:26:17 GMT -5
A lot of the "religious", Catholic and Protestant, are mixed up in all kinds of illicit sex activity. The key word being illicit. The happiest gays reject xianity altogether, and should most people.
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Post by annaj26 on Aug 18, 2016 12:01:58 GMT -5
A lot of the "religious", Catholic and Protestant, are mixed up in all kinds of illicit sex activity. The key word being illicit. The happiest gays reject xianity altogether, and should most people. I'll agree. That's pretty obvious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 22:09:15 GMT -5
Seventeen states have considered laws that would prohibit conversion therapy. California, New Jersey, Oregon, Illinois, Vermont and Washington D.C. have passed such laws. A group of pastors is suing Illinois over its law, contending in a Thursday filing that the prohibition violates free speech and religious rights. Illinois' law applies to therapists and other licensed counselors, but the portion of the law that concerns pastors makes anyone liable for consumer fraud if they practice or advertise conversion therapy that portrays homosexuality as a mental disorder. Not sure I understand this one completely. Does anyone force people to choose and go through this kind of therapy? Surely not! So, if not, and they want to .. why would it be a bad move to provide it. It really does sound ridiculous, but that state has a large number of evangelical Christians and they are probably the source of the wish for this kind of thing, IMO. OTOH, if this therapy is something parents might force children into, that's probably really bad. Wish this gave us more detail. I agree with you....not enough facts are presented to make a clear choice. I don't agree with forcing anyone against their will; Jesus or His disciples never forced the gospel or healing on anyone and we should act accordingly. If the child is in agreement with parents then there is no reason to withhold treatment but I am not a fan of conversion therapy at all. I just have a dislike of psychiatrists and all that mumbo-jumbo.....I know some have supposedly been helped but it's not for me. Wish we had more information.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Aug 18, 2016 23:57:34 GMT -5
The key word being illicit. The happiest gays reject xianity altogether, and should most people. I'll agree. That's pretty obvious. Hi Annaj26, They can't be so religious then, or they would folle the rules. The Ten Commandments for instance.!!!
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Aug 19, 2016 0:13:19 GMT -5
If the law is enacted? It would seem that Psychiatrists and their ilk will soon no longer have a career, and Ministers of Religion will have to stop preaching on such matters.
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Post by kronks on Aug 20, 2016 20:21:09 GMT -5
A persons belief they are homosexual could be a mental disorder though, same as a belief they are a turnip could be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 20:40:04 GMT -5
A persons belief they are homosexual could be a mental disorder though, same as a belief they are a turnip could be. turnip?
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