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Post by biglin on Jan 22, 2011 17:14:01 GMT -5
'Love is just A pile of dust' (Tom Pickard)
'Love means never having to say you're sorry' (Erich Segal)
'Love seeketh not itself to please' (forget the author)
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Erasmus
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Post by Erasmus on Jan 22, 2011 17:34:41 GMT -5
This is one of those rare occasions where English is pretty deficient. Usually there's half a dozen almost interchangeable words that only a native speaker can really tell apart - when for instance do you exactly use tell, say, speak, talk? More significantly, when are they not interchangeable?
Time to get Biblical - or at least Greek. Thanks to an interest in Edith Piaf, I happen to know that the modern Greek for I love you is S'agapo because that's she called her last husband Theo Sarapo, finding Theophanis Lamboukis a bit of a mouthful. (and shows that the Greek G and Baghizian R amount to the same thing - especially with her down-market accent).
That's not the case in Biblical and Classical times. There's a clear distinction between Erows, Phileia and Agapeh. It gets Biblical because something I only learnt yesterday from one of my 'religious' boards is than when Jesus asks Peter is he loves him, Jesus uses Agapein and Peter replies with Philein, not really, as somebody said, misinterpreting since it probably wouldn't be seen as the same 'Love' by anybody at the time. Agapeh was translated into Latin (which makes similar distinctions) as Caritas and not-quite-translated into the King James by its descendent Charity, which then had a less restrictive meaning that the Victorians gave it.
Eros (Έρως) (Bugger the accents - they never used them then and don't any more) is Passion. It's essentialy physical. As far as Enthusiasm is Greek for divine possession, he's the divinity likely to be doing it. So it has far more of the crazy fancy about it, though any respectable Greek man of the day would more likely relate to teenage boys than to mere women.
Agape (Άγαπη) is more in the nature of Compassion, Care, Familial affection - and so is Caritas - esssentially intellectual
Phileia (Φιλεια) is something in between, more emotional devotion once Eros has settled down a bit and ranges from a liking through friendship to a long-term relationship. It would include emotional relationships with a physical component as well as those that had had one but outgrown it with maturity and those that never had one. It's a component of a lot of names with implications of liking or affinity.
Phileia is the one I think of Love in any sense that I understand it as coming closest to meaning, which places friendship as light love that our culture inhibits from physical expression (less so for females) but theirs did not - more like positively encouraged as long as it wasn't too heterosexual.
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Post by annaj26 on Jan 23, 2011 10:38:57 GMT -5
I understand you Sadie. It's like me and the blond Celtic Thunder guy, name of Keith. I bought the newest video and on the days when i'm at home I play it a few times. Tommy comes in and asks me if I'm not tired of that yet and I say OH No! Just let it play. lolol Bet if Keith DID know we have a connection, he'd be happy about it.
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Post by beth on Jan 23, 2011 15:59:23 GMT -5
Annie, I'll tell you a tale .. true story ... that makes me stop and wonder what kind of parameters can be placed on love. I went to school with a boy and girl, he was in my grade, she was 2 years younger .. and I think he loved her from the moment he first saw her. He would leave her notes and little gifts of candy and snacks beside her cubby (locker) in the hall. And she was very excited about that and let him sit beside her in assembly and stand with her, waiting for the parents to pick-up after school. They were cute, everyone thought, and this went on year after year to the point everyone just took it for granted Charles and Lorna were a couple for life. Then came middle school and Charles, who was very bright - always straight As, etc... kind of fell back in popularity because he wasn't one of the sports directed jocks. Lorna was off with a group of other kids at the end of the day most times and Charles could be seen waiting alone for his ride more and more. My family moved away to another town about that time so the rest was told to me by one of my friends who has always kept in touch. Lorna because one of the very popular girls and seemed to forget Charles altogether. He remained devoted to her to the point he joined the football team and no longer had the grades to win academic honors. He wanted to be what she wanted ... a jock. The problem with that was that he was 5'6" and slight. He very seldom got to play but knocked himself out to impress. Lorna was a cheerleader and gave him a "rah rah" when he gained yards or whatever .. At the end of high school, Charles, who could have easily qualified for a scholarship and then medical school or law school for a deferment ... ended up drafted and sent off to Viet Nam. He didn't live long. Some of us went back to attend his funeral. Lorna wasn't there. But .. as a strange twist to the story, she died of leukemia a few years later, married to the captain of the HS football team. Now .. tell me. Was that real love from Charles to Lorna? Why? Where did it come from .. so strong and blind? There was really no relationship ... just the longing of the boy and the acceptance of his tokens of love by the girl. But, love her he did. There are all kinds of love and who are we to judge one kind better or more true than another? So, if you love keith ... in your way .. I casn go with that (though you might take care discussing it with Tommy). Maybe it's the way he sings or speaks or combs his hair ... who knows. If it makes you happy ... enjoy.
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Post by maggie on Jan 23, 2011 16:47:53 GMT -5
That's a sad story Jencin. Was Charles' love unrequited? That's a very sad kind of love.
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Erasmus
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Post by Erasmus on Jan 23, 2011 18:41:11 GMT -5
That's a very sad story but I don't think it really was love. They were not mature enough. Maybe it could have been had they split up and come back to each other after a bit of experience.
Think of her. Evidently she liked the company of a highly intelligent boy. Jocks aren't necessarily thick, but often it's a compensation and they like to look that way. Those ancient Greeks and Romans took for granted that a fit mind required a fit body (Mens sana in corpore sano) but that's not the usual way of it today. Sports types aren't usually known for their intimate tenderness either. So was she really happy with the muscle she married? Could she hold an intelligent conversation with him? Or was she still young enough to be influenced by what ought to be according to other people (and maybe parents), and nerdy boys that might have alright when they were kids and could be again when she had more confidence in herself, just weren't it?
His devotion. I understand that kind of powerful total commitment because I used to feel it, but actually it can become a bit domineering by weakness. It puts the other in a position of being afraid to let the devotee down by an unexpected move. It's not intentionally controlling, but it can give the impression of permanent need for approval and - as with his joining the football team - an unwanted responsibility for this person doing something they aren't really suited to and probably don't care for.
They'll be so disappointed if they know I like this thing they don't. I know they really like that and they'd be good at it but they know I don't, so they won't do it. Please stop trying to please all the time and develop a life of your own.
I think this was a young Eros that probably would have burnt itself out anyway - but perhaps come back together with more leeway and less intensity.
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Post by beth on Jan 23, 2011 19:41:40 GMT -5
That's a sad story Jencin. Was Charles' love unrequited? That's a very sad kind of love. No, from what we could tell, it was not requited in any way except for the fact she seemed to be flattered and enjoy his company until peer pressures took her away to things she enjoyed more. Erasmus, I don't know what might have happened later on. My personal thought is that she was not as taken with him as he was with her and probably never would have been. My *point* is, we cannot say or know whether he loved her ... it was love to him and who are we to be judgmental or say it wasn't. I think, while we might try to analyze and form intellectual opinions ... only those whose hearts are involved really know. Yes, I've always thought it was a very sad story/situation, but like so many other things, it belongs to the past.
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Erasmus
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Post by Erasmus on Jan 23, 2011 22:01:51 GMT -5
I don't call that love; infatuation maybe, but Love implies a relationship and now it seems that there was no real mutual relationship. Maybe she liked the adoration or was brought up to expect it as natural from all males. Maybe it was a loose friendship that he could not see was everlastingly stuck at that level. It's sad, but it's not what I call Love.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 7:15:46 GMT -5
... Now .. tell me. Was that real love from Charles to Lorna? Why? Where did it come from .. so strong and blind? There was really no relationship ... just the longing of the boy and the acceptance of his tokens of love by the girl. But, love her he did. .... That was real love, Jencin. [glow=red,2,300]True love gives but not in expectation of a return.
True love is when the loved one's happiness is more than one's own.
True love knows no sacrifice but only joy. [/glow]
The best work I have read on the nature of love is by C. S. Lewis: " The four loves. It's worth a read. Regards. Prashna
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Post by beth on Jan 24, 2011 12:30:48 GMT -5
That's very nice, Prashna, and thank you for the C.S. Lewis suggestion. Yes, I think he loved her.
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