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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 14:14:39 GMT -5
The fascinating and highly informative Horizon programme can still be viewed AND RECORDED from here: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xxgbnUNTIL 18 FEB OR SO. Watch it, Record it, Discuss it. Perhaps it will answer some questions raised in recent threads here. Excerpt: There is a strange and mysterious world that surrounds us, a world largely hidden from our senses. The quest to explain the true nature of reality is one of the great scientific detective stories.
Clues have been pieced together from deep within the atom, from the event horizon of black holes, and from the far reaches of the cosmos. It may be that that we are part of a cosmic hologram, projected from the edge of the universe. Or that we exist in an infinity of parallel worlds. Your reality may never look quite the same again. Max holds the radical idea that reality is a mathematical structure. Fascinating. Prashna
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 28, 2011 18:10:02 GMT -5
it's not. reality is absolute, immutable, and totally objective. your perception of ANYTHING has no relevance to reality. an example. if you were born in a valley surrounded by mountains, with no contact with anyone from the other side of the mountains, you would believe that your valley was the entire world. you would think that was reality, but obviously, it would not be. your not knowing about something, or being able to see, hear, feel it, will NOT change the fact that it exists
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Post by beth on Jan 29, 2011 0:08:23 GMT -5
it's not. reality is absolute, immutable, and totally objective. your perception of ANYTHING has no relevance to reality. an example. if you were born in a valley surrounded by mountains, with no contact with anyone from the other side of the mountains, you would believe that your valley was the entire world. you would think that was reality, but obviously, it would not be. your not knowing about something, or being able to see, hear, feel it, will NOT change the fact that it exists ALL I could see from where I stood Was three long mountains and a wood; I turned and looked the other way, And saw three islands in a bay. So with my eyes I traced the line Of the horizon, thin and fine, Straight around till I was come Back to where I’d started from; And all I saw from where I stood Was three long mountains and a wood. Over these things I could not see: These were the things that bounded me; So then, you don't believe in personal reality, Jim?
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Post by Dex on Jan 29, 2011 2:13:04 GMT -5
it's not. reality is absolute, immutable, and totally objective. your perception of ANYTHING has no relevance to reality. an example. if you were born in a valley surrounded by mountains, with no contact with anyone from the other side of the mountains, you would believe that your valley was the entire world. you would think that was reality, but obviously, it would not be. your not knowing about something, or being able to see, hear, feel it, will NOT change the fact that it exists Jumbo, I have two young children and work 2 jobs and I'd bet that gives me a different reality than what you have. We all play the cards we get dealt and that is our reality.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 5:38:16 GMT -5
Has anyone here actually seen the programme cited?
If so, do you think it's a good summary of the various views on Reality?
If not, then please see the programme while it remains available on iplayer. You, like me, might find it thought-provoking and instructive.
Regards.
Prashna
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Post by fretslider on Jan 29, 2011 6:12:06 GMT -5
Has anyone here actually seen the programme cited? If so, do you think it's a good summary of the various views on Reality? If not, then please see the programme while it remains available on iplayer. You, like me, might find it thought-provoking and instructive. Regards. Prashna I have, but I have a feeling that it may not be available outside the uk. The BBC, as far as I know, blocks access to the iPlayer in the US. We're still only scratching the surface.... They can describe the world with quantum physics and reality, but they can't get their heads round it. Very true.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2011 10:31:07 GMT -5
it's not. reality is absolute, immutable, and totally objective. your perception of ANYTHING has no relevance to reality. an example. if you were born in a valley surrounded by mountains, with no contact with anyone from the other side of the mountains, you would believe that your valley was the entire world. you would think that was reality, but obviously, it would not be. your not knowing about something, or being able to see, hear, feel it, will NOT change the fact that it exists Jumbo, I have two young children and work 2 jobs and I'd bet that gives me a different reality than what you have. We all play the cards we get dealt and that is our reality. see the first line in my signature. your situation gives you a different perspective on life. for sure, your situation is different than mine, as is everyone's. most people are in different situations, and each person's situation is the reality into which he has been placed, either by choice, or by fate. the thing is, that is reality for you, and regardless of how you might wish, or how you perceive it, nothing will change the fact that this is how it is. my perspective of your situation is totally irrelevant, but, i recognize that the reality is that you are working two jobs trying to survive with two kids. anything that i might do or say will not change it.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2011 10:43:35 GMT -5
it's not. reality is absolute, immutable, and totally objective. your perception of ANYTHING has no relevance to reality. an example. if you were born in a valley surrounded by mountains, with no contact with anyone from the other side of the mountains, you would believe that your valley was the entire world. you would think that was reality, but obviously, it would not be. your not knowing about something, or being able to see, hear, feel it, will NOT change the fact that it exists ALL I could see from where I stood Was three long mountains and a wood; I turned and looked the other way, And saw three islands in a bay. So with my eyes I traced the line Of the horizon, thin and fine, Straight around till I was come Back to where I’d started from; And all I saw from where I stood Was three long mountains and a wood. Over these things I could not see: These were the things that bounded me; So then, you don't believe in personal reality, Jim? of course i do. everyone's life is a personal reality. however, that reality is what is actually happening, not what they would like to happen, or what could happen. of course, as with everything, each and every motion that you make is done by your choice, and yours alone. i wasn't really referring to the actual reality of an individual's life however. i'm mainly talking about the universe in general. the point is that, whether or not you choose to believe that something exists because you can't see, or feel it, does NOT change the fact that it exists. whether or not you want to believe in the rules or absolute morality of the universe, has nothing to do with anything. what is there, and how things are, will never change, regardless of anyone's perspective, or desires
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2011 10:50:32 GMT -5
Has anyone here actually seen the programme cited? If so, do you think it's a good summary of the various views on Reality? If not, then please see the programme while it remains available on iplayer. You, like me, might find it thought-provoking and instructive. Regards. Prashna I have, but I have a feeling that it may not be available outside the uk. The BBC, as far as I know, blocks access to the iPlayer in the US. We're still only scratching the surface.... They can describe the world with quantum physics and reality, but they can't get their heads round it. Very true. it does say that it's not available in our area. max nix though. garbage such as quantum physics is pure bullshyt hallucinations, by definition
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Post by fretslider on Jan 29, 2011 10:55:17 GMT -5
I have, but I have a feeling that it may not be available outside the uk. The BBC, as far as I know, blocks access to the iPlayer in the US. We're still only scratching the surface.... They can describe the world with quantum physics and reality, but they can't get their heads round it. Very true. it does say that it's not available in our area. max nix though. garbage such as quantum physics is pure bullshyt hallucinations, by definition Don't be embarrassed, jumbo. It is hard to fathom. Because it is hard to fathom doesn't mean its bs though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 11:49:31 GMT -5
it does say that it's not available in our area. max nix though. garbage such as quantum physics is pure bullshyt hallucinations, by definition Oh dear, "bullshyt hallucinations" indeed! I find the dry humour exemplified in for example "Three men in a boat" by Jerome K Jerome much more to my taste. I just cannot understand what purpose or argument is served by such dubious and ultimately meaningless expressions. Had you seen the programme or any similar ones broadcast in the USA, you could have seen the liquefied Helium drops apparently falling through solid matter; within a degree or so of Absolute Zero. Or in Quantum terms existing in two places at once. I do not even begin to understand it, but the evidence was there for anyone to see. I do not know how one can deny such evidence. Regards. Prashna
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Erasmus
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Post by Erasmus on Jan 29, 2011 12:52:48 GMT -5
There's certainly an argument for 'reality' as something beyond our comprehension since we are after all a part of the 'matrix' so can't look outside of it.
One could argue the Copenhagen Convention and interpretations derived therefrom as proof of a 'god' in that , if nothing exists in a fixed state without observation, then a universal Observer solves the problem of continuity. But all the best religions end up agreeing with quantum physics as it progresses, that ultimately there is a Great Big Nothing there, or at least No Things and it's all in the mind. Question is what mind
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2011 16:02:22 GMT -5
it does say that it's not available in our area. max nix though. garbage such as quantum physics is pure bullshyt hallucinations, by definition Don't be embarrassed, jumbo. It is hard to fathom. Because it is hard to fathom doesn't mean its bs though. there's nothing hard to fathom about it at all. it is simply abject stupidity whose sole purpose is to make you feel good thinking that nothing is your fault since you have no control over your actions. as i said, it's pure bullshyt, with a capital B
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2011 16:10:26 GMT -5
it does say that it's not available in our area. max nix though. garbage such as quantum physics is pure bullshyt hallucinations, by definition Oh dear, "bullshyt hallucinations" indeed! I find the dry humour exemplified in for example "Three men in a boat" by Jerome K Jerome much more to my taste. I just cannot understand what purpose or argument is served by such dubious and ultimately meaningless expressions. Had you seen the programme or any similar ones broadcast in the USA, you could have seen the liquefied Helium drops apparently falling through solid matter; within a degree or so of Absolute Zero. Or in Quantum terms existing in two places at once. I do not even begin to understand it, but the evidence was there for anyone to see. I do not know how one can deny such evidence. Regards. Prashna there is NO evidence for a single physical item being in two far removed locations at the exact same time
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2011 16:19:30 GMT -5
the simple REALITY is that you, and you alone, are SOLELY responsible for each and every, without exception, thought that you have, and action that you take. there is NO outside force which coerces you to do or think anything, ever. a case in point would extend even to a robber pulling a gun on you and demanding your money. YOU, not the robber, makes the choice to either tell him to f..k off, take the gun away from him, or give him your money. the robber cannot FORCE you to do any of the three. it is solely your choice. the fact that there could be adverse consequences to making a bad decision in any given situation does NOT change the fact that it is you, and you alone, who is totally responsible for making that decision
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