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Post by iamjumbo on May 2, 2010 6:35:01 GMT -5
If I had the chance to know the exact time and day that I would die, I would want to know. Then, I wouldn't be afraid to try things that can be seen as dangerous, and potentially life-threatening. I would actually be able to live life to the fullest until I die. that is fatalism at its finest. i try to believe that, since you are going to die when it is your time to die, you can't die before that time. if you jump off the empire state building, and die, you would have died lying home in bed. i do believe that, but not strongly enough to jump
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Post by iamjumbo on May 2, 2010 6:41:05 GMT -5
The problem I have with 'knowing' is that there is no guarantee you'll even make it far enough along in this walk to become diseased. Meanwhile you can spend your entire life worrying about something that ~ even if eventually it's going to change your life ~ may not because something else may just reach up and grab you first. I think living life to the fullest is to live life as though each day may be the last one you have here, each moment precious. Then, everything's cake. that's the ideal
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Post by fretslider on May 2, 2010 6:43:44 GMT -5
That's fine, jumbo - if you don't give a stuff about those around you. If the prognosis is obvious and one has lost it, there is no shame in ending it. In fact some might argue that it is a brave man who chooses to end it, thus. PS I see you've got your avatar back! thanks to beth. i couldn't make the thing work to save my illustrious derriere quite the opposite. it is the thinking about your friends and family that require you to stick around for them. that is one of the things that makes the suicide trip so cowardly. it is the most selfish act that anyone can perform. I still say its kinder on those around you, when the game is obviously up, to go and let them move on.
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Post by beth on May 2, 2010 8:03:42 GMT -5
I don't think so, fret. I'd hate to think anyone I care about would make that kind of decision for that particular reason. It's hard enough to lose a loved one, but, I think, even worse if they decide to leave sooner than they had to. OTOH, if someone was beyond any kind of decent life quality - because of pain and suffering or mental anguish, I'd try to understand. But, to opt out for my sake? Oh no . . . please. Not a good call.
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Post by fretslider on May 2, 2010 8:11:31 GMT -5
I don't think so, fret. I'd hate to think anyone I care about would make that kind of decision for that particular reason. It's hard enough to lose a loved one, but, I think, even worse if they decide to leave sooner than they had to. OTOH, if someone was beyond any kind of decent life quality - because of pain and suffering or mental anguish, I'd try to understand. But, to opt out for my sake? Oh no . . . please. Not a good call. I did say when the game is up, beth. It goes without saying that that is when one has lost the ability to function and there is no quality of life, as such. I wouldn't want to be a burden. But as with a great many things in life this is a matter of personal choice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 8:22:20 GMT -5
I can understand taking yourself out if the game is over but what if the person is unable to commit suicide without your help?
What does it become then?
Alot of people are asked to turn off life support but what about the patient who is suffering terrible and asks for an overdose of drugs?
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Post by iamjumbo on May 2, 2010 8:26:21 GMT -5
thanks to beth. i couldn't make the thing work to save my illustrious derriere quite the opposite. it is the thinking about your friends and family that require you to stick around for them. that is one of the things that makes the suicide trip so cowardly. it is the most selfish act that anyone can perform. I still say its kinder on those around you, when the game is obviously up, to go and let them move on. IF you've made that decision while you are still quite healthy, and have documented it with a living will, that would be another matter. waiting until the time actually comes though, is what would keep it totally wrong
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Post by gabriel on May 2, 2010 8:28:04 GMT -5
I think I am the guinea pig. And it's cool. I hope it works.
Go beth!!
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Post by iamjumbo on May 2, 2010 8:29:23 GMT -5
I don't think so, fret. I'd hate to think anyone I care about would make that kind of decision for that particular reason. It's hard enough to lose a loved one, but, I think, even worse if they decide to leave sooner than they had to. OTOH, if someone was beyond any kind of decent life quality - because of pain and suffering or mental anguish, I'd try to understand. But, to opt out for my sake? Oh no . . . please. Not a good call. that is the point. you do not have a right to cause your family and friends any more grief than they'll already have
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Post by iamjumbo on May 2, 2010 8:31:31 GMT -5
I can understand taking yourself out if the game is over but what if the person is unable to commit suicide without your help? What does it become then? Alot of people are asked to turn off life support but what about the patient who is suffering terrible and asks for an overdose of drugs? that is even more cowardly. asking someone to kill you is not committing suicide anyway. if you don't have the balls to do it yourself, hell with you
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Post by Wonder Woman on May 2, 2010 11:27:58 GMT -5
I dunno ~~ seems like if we make the choice to end it so as not to be a burden on our loved ones, we deprive them of something very special.
******
Separately, if someone asks you to end it for them, because of their pain, well, it's really not necessary to 'end' it, committing murder. All they really want is for their pain to be over. One can heavily medicate (quite legal through hospice, at least in CA) and let nature finish things.
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Post by Greylek on May 2, 2010 12:33:03 GMT -5
I can understand taking yourself out if the game is over but what if the person is unable to commit suicide without your help? What does it become then? Alot of people are asked to turn off life support but what about the patient who is suffering terrible and asks for an overdose of drugs? that is even more cowardly. asking someone to kill you is not committing suicide anyway. if you don't have the balls to do it yourself, hell with you what if they can't kill themselves, like they are suffering from ALS or parkinsons? would you still classify that as cowardly?
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Kay
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Post by Kay on May 2, 2010 12:54:30 GMT -5
I dunno ~~ seems like if we make the choice to end it so as not to be a burden on our loved ones, we deprive them of something very special. ****** Separately, if someone asks you to end it for them, because of their pain, well, it's really not necessary to 'end' it, committing murder. All they really want is for their pain to be over. One can heavily medicate (quite legal through hospice, at least in CA) and let nature finish things. If we do not suffer, we are not wise. If we are not wise, we are not blessed. Therefore, if we do not suffer, we are not blessed While I comprehend those words, and to a point, very reluctantly agree, there is a huge part of me that would rather have remained ignorant. Do you think it's always wise to avoid physical death at all costs, Lynne. Could it be that a person could maximize their humanity by choosing to preserve some dignity and tranquility of mind?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 14:40:39 GMT -5
so if one assists in a suicide, they are murdering?
Why don't we call turning off life support murder?
Where is the difference?
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Novak
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Post by Novak on May 2, 2010 14:55:09 GMT -5
so if one assists in a suicide, they are murdering? Why don't we call turning off life support murder? Where is the difference? Life support, generally, is used to preserve the organs so they can be used for donations, in cases where the person has not signed their organ donor card, and the family has to decide. If the person cannot sustain life on their own, without machine intervention, then they are dead, or in the process of becoming dead. It's the whole issue of quality of life. A person with brain damage and no chance of recovering does not have a quality of life left. Also, you have to take into account the persons wishes. Some people can sign a DNR, or have verbal/written consent where it says if they were to be rendered on life support, to pull the plug.
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