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Post by sadie on Apr 10, 2012 9:56:21 GMT -5
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT and JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN updated 4/10/2012 5:55:16 AM ET WASHINGTON — As violent crime has decreased across the country, a disturbing trend has emerged: rising numbers of police officers are being killed. According to statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 72 officers were killed by perpetrators in 2011, a 25 percent increase from the previous year and a 75 percent increase from 2008. The 2011 deaths were the first time that more officers were killed by suspects than car accidents, according to data compiled by the International Association of Chiefs of Police. The number was the highest in nearly two decades, excluding those who died in the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001 and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. While a majority of officers were killed in smaller cities, 13 were killed in cities of 250,000 or more. New York City lost two officers last year. On Sunday, four were wounded by a gunman in Brooklyn, bringing to eight the number of officers shot in the city since December. “We haven’t seen a period of this type of violence in a long time,” said Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly of the New York Police Department. While the F.B.I. and other law enforcement officials cannot fully explain the reasons for the rise in officer homicides, they are clear about the devastating consequences. “In this law enforcement job, when you pin this badge on and go out on calls, when you leave home, you ain’t got a promise that you will come back,” said Sheriff Ray Foster of Buchanan County, Va. Two of his deputies were killed in March 2011 and two wounded — one of them paralyzed — by a man with a high-powered rifle. “That was 80 percent of my day shift,” he said. Link to tough economy? After a spate of killings in early 2011, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. asked federal authorities to work with local police departments to try to come up with solutions to the problem. The F.B.I., which has tracked officer deaths since 1937, paid for a study conducted by John Jay College that found that in many cases the officers were trying to arrest or stop a suspect who had previously been arrested for a violent crime. That prompted the F.B.I. to change what information it will provide to local police departments, the officials said. Starting this year, when police officers stop a car and call its license plate into the F.B.I.’s database, they will be told whether the owner of the vehicle has a violent history. Through the first three months of this year, the number of police fatalities has dropped, though it is unclear why. Some law enforcement officials believe that techniques pioneered by the New York Police Department over the past two decades and adopted by other departments may have put officers at greater risk by encouraging them to conduct more street stops and to seek out and confront suspects who seem likely to be armed. In New York and elsewhere, police officials moved more officers into crime-ridden areas. “This technique has become more popular across the country as smaller departments have followed the larger cities and tried to prevent crime,” said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum. “Unlike several decades ago, there is this expectation that police matter and that police can make a difference.” Commissioner Kelly said, “We try to put those officers where there is the most potential for violence.” However, he pointed out that most of the officers who have been shot in New York since December were not part of a proactive police deployment but were responding to emergencies. Some argue that the rise in violence is linked to the tough economy. With less money, some states are releasing prisoners earlier; police departments, after years of staffing increases, have been forced to make cutbacks. for more: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47001462/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/#.T4RI2-2-OTM
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Hunny
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Post by Hunny on Apr 10, 2012 10:44:34 GMT -5
I don't feel surprised by this. The police in this country are viewed by many of us as off the hook, electrocuting people and ramming their cars off the roads, arresting children, using their guns, etc. So that their reputation with the public isn't as good anymore could have an effect. Plus every time a politician wants to get elected, he says he'll be "tougher on crime"(because he wants us to vote for him as a social savior), but that lunacy has led us to having 1 out of every 100 Americans in jail (more than 1%, the highest of any country). There is such a thing as "too much", and i think they just go overboard trying to micro-control every little human thing. Hell, a man cant even get in a fistfight anymore (which was always considered wholesome here) but now they get electrocuted, beat and stuck in a cage for it. It's too much. So I'm saying there are those who might start viewing cops as the enemy of liberty, the enemy of us and our freedom as americans, etc I'm not saying I think that, or at least certainly not to the point of killing anyone, but there is 300 million Americans out there, and thus quite a few with their own ideas of what "right and wrong" and "justice" should be. When something that used to work to protect us changes to something that preys on us, and invades too much, and does it too harshly, too oppressively, people will stop being as supportive and start being a little resentful. Meanwhile Americans have guns so there you are. Another factor that could affect the rate is that we're alienating many people from feeling they're part of the system now, because as the middle class becomes more and more the poor class, they end up having poor people type problems and getting treated as such ( the cops do the most hunting, and the least forgiving, in that level). They might even check the changing demographics, for a reason, and also the change in generations and how they typically believe and react, etc (the young adults now grew up listening to music that TELLS THEM TO "off a cop" etc., so.. Lastly, is an additional 20 deaths in a year actually enough to objectively support the conclusion that there is a pattern? I mean numbers always fluctuate , up and down, and you measure more years than three to take a valid average. They may be jumping to conclusions. __________________
But even so, having pointed to it, yea, the cops really should address their image problem (all those youtubes people are making with their phone cameras now, and that awful electrocution device they use now as standard procedure...it's not making them look okay at all). I used to feel safe when a cop was around; now i feel a little scared (they're too rough now,and if someone does something, nearby, and they spring into action, I don't want to be around when there's bullets flying and cars being rammed!, people being electrocuted. And the high speed chases they create are wreckless. It's scary. America is scary now. (contrast the way they go on now to the show "Adam 12", if you remember it. It portrayed the cops as more like a friendly neighbor. If you had a domestic dispute, they'd act as counselors, not show up with the shotgun pulled, and rubber gloves because they think you're too filthy to touch. Yick! We were told "the policeman is your friend" back then, and they were. They protected us. Now I think they're scary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 11:01:08 GMT -5
I don't feel surprised by this. The police in this country are viewed by many of us as off the hook, electrocuting people and ramming their cars off the roads, arresting children, using their guns, etc. So that their reputation with the public isn't as good anymore could have an effect. Plus every time a politician wants to get elected, he says he'll be "tougher on crime"(because he wants us to vote for him as a social savior), but that lunacy has led us to having 1 out of every 100 Americans in jail (more than 1%, the highest of any country). There is such a thing as "too much", and i think they just go overboard trying to micro-control every little human thing. Hell, a man cant even get in a fistfight anymore (which was always considered wholesome here) but now they get electrocuted, beat and stuck in a cage for it. It's too much. So I'm saying there are those who might start viewing cops as the enemy of liberty, the enemy of us and our freedom as americans, etc I'm not saying I think that, or at least certainly not to the point of killing anyone, but there is 300 million Americans out there, and thus quite a few with their own ideas of what "right and wrong" and "justice" should be. When something that used to work to protect us changes to something that preys on us, and invades too much, and does it too harshly, too oppressively, people will stop being as supportive and start being a little resentful. Meanwhile Americans have guns so there you are. Another factor that could affect the rate is that we're alienating many people from feeling they're part of the system now, because as the middle class becomes more and more the poor class, they end up having poor people type problems and getting treated as such ( the cops do the most hunting, and the least forgiving, in that level). They might even check the changing demographics, for a reason, and also the change in generations and how they typically believe and react, etc (the young adults now grew up listening to music that TELLS THEM TO "off a cop" etc., so.. Lastly, is an additional 20 deaths in a year actually enough to objectively support the conclusion that there is a pattern? I mean numbers always fluctuate , up and down, and you measure more years than three to take a valid average. They may be jumping to conclusions. But even so, having pointed to it, yea, the cops really should address their image problem (all those youtubes people are making with their phone cameras now, and that awful electrocution device they use now as standard procedure...it's not making them look okay at all) Yeesh, what rubbish. Sorry, Hunny, but this is alarmist drivel. Tasers were introduced to save lives and reduce confrontations with the police. Would you rather have them shooting and clubbing suspects? Neither is the United States rate of incarceration something to be embarrassed about. Every inmate got there of his/her own volition. Would you rather have them in your neighborhood? I certainly don't.
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Hunny
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Post by Hunny on Apr 10, 2012 11:19:50 GMT -5
No offense taken, but..
They used to restrain someone by physically grabbing him, not by acting scared and just shooting him with an electric gun, because they're afraid to get hurt. ..or they beat him and kick him a few dozen times now, even after he's down. They didn't used to behave like that.
I have less respect for them because of that taser. I've seen them do this to old ladies, to a mother with her kids in the car, to kids. (for speeding, and for skateboarding.) It's standard procedure and it makes me want to move somewhere civilized.
Secondly, yes the United State's incarceration rate is from arresting too many people for too many things. Drugs, for example. Addiction is a disease; why are people being caged for being sick? Europe does it right. And if I'm wrong, then why is there a grossly disproportionate number of black men in jail? I cant believe they all"deserved" to be locked up. If we're not going to help people when they screw up, then we're just monsters ourselves for hurting them for their problems.
Eh, this subject is way too personal to me. I should probably stay clear of it. A lot of people have the reaction you did to what I think. And there are people who agree with me. But it doesn't matter. Once I've stated how i feel, if you feel otherwise and say so, that's ok. I shouldn't argue back. I do consider people's thoughts though, and I have been wrong occasionally, so..
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Hunny
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Post by Hunny on Apr 10, 2012 11:31:53 GMT -5
Oh... Someone told me her husband is a cop, was that you Sadie? I can't recall who it was. Shoot. I oughta' delete my comment. I don't want to be offensive to anyone. Stating what I've seen and how I felt about it isn't necessary if it's going to make anyone feel bad. Well I'm sorry if i said too strongly about cops. *groan* One thing i know, my opinions are generally not in sync with the majority opinion at all, so just think of me as very very wrong and please forgive me then.
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Post by maggie on Apr 10, 2012 11:33:03 GMT -5
And you are still entitled to them Hunny. Please don't delete your comments. They were very interesting.
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Hunny
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Post by Hunny on Apr 10, 2012 11:34:48 GMT -5
And you are still entitled to them Hunny. Please don't delete your comments. They were very interesting. thank you maggie
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 11:54:01 GMT -5
They used to restrain someone by physically grabbing him, not by acting scared and just shooting him with an electric gun, because they're afraid to get hurt You obviously don't know what it's like to arrest someone who is violent and/or amped up on drugs. Tasing the recalcitrant suspect is for his/her protection as much as it is for the peace officer making the arrest. . ..or they beat him and kick him a few dozen times now, even after he's down. They didn't used to behave like that. They still don't. A tased suspect is amenable to arrest. It is not in the interest of a trained law enforcement officer to injure someone who is going to jail anyway. I have less respect for them because of that taser. I've seen them do this to old ladies, to a mother with her kids in the car, to kids. (for speeding, and for skateboarding.) And yet none of them were injured, were they. A criminal is a criminal. It doesn't matter what sex you are, or how old. It's standard procedure and it makes me want to move somewhere civilized. To a place where they have to pummel a suspect to put him in handcuffs? Secondly, yes the United State's incarceration rate is from arresting too many people for too many things. Drugs, for example. Addiction is a disease; why are people being caged for being sick? I don't suppose you're married to a drug addict, are you. It's not a disease. It's a choice. Certainly brain chemistry may make one predisposed to overindulge in toxic substances, but it's still a choice. I'd rather have these people in prison than on my block. If the law-abiding are forced to support them one way or the other, we at least have the right to protect ourselves from their behavior. Sure they do. Ask the Europeans here how fun it is to support drug addicts with their tax dollars, how enjoyable it is to suffer the narcissism and indolence of brain-damaged, zoned-out zombies while trying to feed their own families. And if I'm wrong, then why is there a grossly disproportionate number of black men in jail? Because they are grossly, disproportionately contemptuous of the law. In the United States, they have the freedom to end up in prison, if they want to. And many make that choice. Who are you to tell them not to? I cant believe they all"deserved" to be locked up. They're not there for using drugs. It's possession for sale that gets them in trouble, and rightfully so. If we're not going to help people when they screw up, then we're just monsters ourselves for hurting them for their problems. You can't help someone with a bad attitude. That's what gets someone thrown in prison. Most people who screw up in life are law-abiding. Most black people are law-abiding. The convicts you feel sorry for knew what they did was wrong and did it anyway. They knew the risks. this subject is way too personal to me. I should probably stay clear of it. It's personal to me too. Very personal. A lot of people have the reaction you did to what I think. And there are people who agree with me. But it doesn't matter. Once I've stated how i feel, if you feel otherwise and say so, that's ok. I shouldn't argue back. I shouldn't even have posted this. (I will consider your thoughts though, and I have been wrong here and there too, so *shrug* I admire your idealism and passion, but I am not one who believes in redemption. We can't allow drug addiction to be a socially acceptable choice, which is what blind legalization of narcotics would do. I don't have a solution, other than to bludgeon children over the head, every day, nonstop, that users are losers, the way we used to, and to keep at it until addiction is seen for what it truly is. Don't feel you have to temper your opinions here. We're all grown-ups. You can speak your mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 12:04:22 GMT -5
Oh... Someone told me her husband is a cop, was that you Sadie? I can't recall who it was. Shoot. I oughta' delete my comment. I don't want to be offensive to anyone. Stating what I've seen and how I felt about it isn't necessary if it's going to make anyone feel bad. Well I'm sorry if i said too strongly about cops. *groan* One thing i know, my opinions are generally not in sync with the majority opinion at all, so just think of me as very very wrong and please forgive me then. There are certainly bad cops, and cops who are taser-happy, and there are probably whole police departments who over-tase suspects. I have visited inmates, so I know a little about prison. The causes of crime have been debated for a long time, and there will always be those who regard crime as a social problem, rather than as a moral problem. To me, however, that defames those, especially women, who have had hard, troubled childhoods and didn't end up in prison. The question isn't why black men end up in prison, but why black women don't.
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Post by fretslider on Apr 10, 2012 12:05:23 GMT -5
Oh... Someone told me her husband is a cop, was that you Sadie? I can't recall who it was. Shoot. I oughta' delete my comment. I don't want to be offensive to anyone. Stating what I've seen and how I felt about it isn't necessary if it's going to make anyone feel bad. Well I'm sorry if i said too strongly about cops. *groan* One thing i know, my opinions are generally not in sync with the majority opinion at all, so just think of me as very very wrong and please forgive me then. Hunny This site is about freedom of expression
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Post by akamai on Apr 10, 2012 12:07:08 GMT -5
No offense taken, but.. They used to restrain someone by physically grabbing him, not by acting scared and just shooting him with an electric gun, because they're afraid to get hurt. ..or they beat him and kick him a few dozen times now, even after he's down. They didn't used to behave like that. I have less respect for them because of that taser. I've seen them do this to old ladies, to a mother with her kids in the car, to kids. (for speeding, and for skateboarding.) It's standard procedure and it makes me want to move somewhere civilized. Secondly, yes the United State's incarceration rate is from arresting too many people for too many things. Drugs, for example. Addiction is a disease; why are people being caged for being sick? Europe does it right. And if I'm wrong, then why is there a grossly disproportionate number of black men in jail? I cant believe they all"deserved" to be locked up. If we're not going to help people when they screw up, then we're just monsters ourselves for hurting them for their problems. Eh, this subject is way too personal to me. I should probably stay clear of it. A lot of people have the reaction you did to what I think. And there are people who agree with me. But it doesn't matter. Once I've stated how i feel, if you feel otherwise and say so, that's ok. I shouldn't argue back. I do consider people's thoughts though, and I have been wrong occasionally, so.. Hi Hunny, First of all, let me start by saying that I detest racism. Making myself clearer, I am NOT saying that your comment is racist, but I think I should clarify a statement that you posted. It is true, that a disproportunate amount of people incarcerated in this country are African Americans, but also to go along with that, it is a disproportunate amount of African Americans that commit crimes. The difference in proportions is NOT a matter of race. When it comes to police deaths, what we must understand, is that the police job in this country in most cases, is an armed position, where the police officer must respond to all kinds of crimes from domestic violence to robberies and murders. Keeping that in mind, the amount of police deaths is not actually high, but actually low. While we have the pro gun faction claiming that if you have more guns in our society, there will be less violent crimes, there are countries in this world where most police officers do not carry a firearm, and their police deaths are proportunately much lower than ours. Akamai
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Post by akamai on Apr 10, 2012 12:11:12 GMT -5
[/quote] Yeesh, what rubbish. Sorry, Hunny, but this is alarmist drivel.
Tasers were introduced to save lives and reduce confrontations with the police. Would you rather have them shooting and clubbing suspects?
Neither is the United States rate of incarceration something to be embarrassed about. Every inmate got there of his/her own volition. Would you rather have them in your neighborhood? I certainly don't.[/quote]
Hi Joseph, I don't think Hunny is complaing about the total use of Tasers. I think she is complaining about the abuse of Tasers by police officers. For instance, there is no need to use a taser on an 80 year old, or an unarmed woman in her car.
The use of tasers may be a danger to a police officer, because when he points the weapon to a felon, he is apt to get shot with a firearm. Akamai
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 12:22:06 GMT -5
I don't think Hunny is complaing about the total use of Tasers. I think she is complaining about the abuse of Tasers by police officers. For instance, there is no need to use a taser on an 80 year old, or an unarmed woman in her car. I'm for video records of all arrests. There should be civil remedies for taser abuse. I wouldn't assume that an 80 year old person is out bounds for a tase merely by virtue of his/her age. There are some dangerous seniors out there. The use of tasers may be a danger to a police officer, because when he points the weapon to a felon, he is apt to get shot with a firearm. Well it's up to the cops to figure that out. I don't second-guess their policies. I know they're trying to do the work the best they know how. At least that is true for most fo them.
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Post by akamai on Apr 10, 2012 12:46:57 GMT -5
And you are still entitled to them Hunny. Please don't delete your comments. They were very interesting. I agree. I have a son who is a police officer, and sometimes putting his life on the line is a part of the job. I don't like it, but he loves his job and does it well. I was once a soldier with duty in the Far East. Putting my life on the line was always a possibility, but it was a part of my duty. Fortunately, I didn't have to go into combat, but it was just a part of the job if I did. A boxer goes into the ring knowing that some boxers get serously injured or die from the sport. Akamai
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Post by sadie on Apr 10, 2012 23:12:00 GMT -5
No worries Hunny......you and I talked out the cop issue.....so no problems from me. Always say what you think......I'd be more upset if you didn't feel like you were free to do so.
Besides....everyone here knows I married him for the handcuffs. ;D
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