Justifiable Homicide?

[gabriel]

Front page news here this morning. A state Supreme Court jury found a woman not guilty of the premeditated murder of her husband.

Apparently, she'd been abused by him and she just couldn't take any more. So she cooked him curry for dinner and mashed up sleeping pills in the curry.

After he'd fallen asleep, she pulled him onto a plastic sheet because she didn't know how much mess there would be. She shot him in the head then ran away to hide in a cupboard. She could still hear him breathing 2 hours later, so she went back and shot him through the neck.

He finally died and she dragged the body into the car and dumped him. The next day she went to the cops and reported him as a missing person. She made a very emotional appeal on TV for help in finding him.

The cops not being quite as dumb as they can appear, figured it all out and charged her with murder.

So there you have the case.

Now I can understand her fear and I even get the idea that she felt she had to kill him, or he would kill her 1st. I'm just having a hard time understanding why she was found not guilty of pre-meditated murder. She even had to go and buy a gun. Hint No 1: if you're going to buy a gun to kill someone and you intend to get away with murder, don't buy it through legal means as these guys keep RECORDS!

Anyway, like I said, I'm not quite getting where the not guilty verdict kicked in. I think that if I had been on that jury, there would have to be a new trial.

[Wonder Woman]

I don't understand how that doesn't fit premeditated murder. Did she get away scot-free?

[Deleted]

My sympathies are entirely with the woman.

NOT all premeditated killings ARE murder.

Some (as in this instance) simply ARE justified homicide.

[Wonder Woman]

Was evidence of abuse brought to trial? Or are we just taking her word for it? I wonder too, did the abuse go both ways? And, if she was abused, could she have got out another way? ~ Most abused women do.

You give her a one-off, you in essence tell all those who've been 'abused' (every woman will define that differently) to kill their tormentor, rather than seek a non-lethal way out.

[gabriel]

WW what I read this morning, it was all her say.

However, that doesn't make it not true. Who knows?

Domestic violence is a tricky situation.

I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. She couldn't leave him or he would come after her, or members of her family.

But not guilty of premeditated murder?

Like I said, I'm finding it hard to get my mind around that one.

[Wonder Woman]

Jun 4, 2010 8:45:19 GMT -5 @gabriel said:

WW what I read this morning, it was all her say.

However, that doesn't make it not true. Who knows?

Domestic violence is a tricky situation.

I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. She couldn't leave him or he would come after her, or members of her family.

But not guilty of premeditated murder?

Like I said, I'm finding it hard to get my mind around that one.

That's just it. A claim of domestic violence doesn't make the domestic violence claim either legitimate, nor necessarily a 'reason' to kill. The vast majority of us who have lived through domestic violence found another way out. I would be highly suspicious of the claim that premeditated murder (which is what it actually was) is the only way out ~ perhaps easiest, least costly, most proficient, but not only.

[sadie]

If it was like that Winkler case where she propped high heeled shoes up on the stand and said he made her wear them during sex and called that abuse.......I will want to scream.......

If she could prove abuse....witnesses and such....fine.......and it went on for a long time I could maybe go for it. Think it was a pretty nasty way to go about it.....drug him and get out......but then she's afraid he will come after her.....

I don't know......I'm conflicted on this subject. I come from a very loving supportive family.....yet my first marriage was abusive. I look at it now and I can see how he did it......but back then it seems I just slipped into this trap I could't get out of and that I couldn't turn to anyone.....and then I was too embarrassed to tell anyone........I ended up not leaving for myself but for what it was doing to my child.......and when I saw him jerk my one year old child off the floor by one arm. I spent the last night of my marriage to him locked out of the bedroom with him in the bedroom with a shotgun and my son..............in the morning he got dressed for work.....and left........within an hour with the help of my family and trailers everything of mine and my son's was packed and gone and we never went back..........

[Wonder Woman]

Well, naturally, you killed him before you up and left, right?

[sadie]

Oh....I forgot to make my point........I also knew it was time to leave....when he came home drunk one time and passed out taking his pants off......and it was all I could do not to take a baseball bat and beat him with it.......and then just say he came home that way. I actually had to walk around outside at 3 or 4 a.m. to keep from doing it. I'm not a violent person.......but I had gotten to that point. I would dream that he was dead.....and wake up and there he was and I would be sooooo disappointed. I was only married a year and half to this person.......I can't imagine longer..........I wouldn't have made it......or he wouldn't have. So I kind of understand the sentiment........and mind you he didn't beat the crap out of me......he pushed me over chairs....he knocked me into walls or other things....or I had constant finger prints around my arms.....like bracelets........he told me every day......every day.....that I was worthless and stupid and nobody would every want me and that I was ugly and fat......(I weighed 95 lbs at the time)......and after awhile I believed all that........it was so hopeless.........and every time he hurt me.....it was my fault that I had made him do that to me........

For those of you that haven't been there.....it's really hard to understand........I know that........

[Wonder Woman]

I've been there, too, Sadie, and bulieve me, I know those feelings well. He never hit me that I recall ~ tripped, hurled, manhandled, and ridiculed, belittled. The fingerprints were usually round my neck, and each time he did that, I truly believed that time would be the last cuz I'd be dead. It's when he turned his sadism onto Jim that it was enough and too much, though. You got out, so did I. And, so do so many others.

Okay, I get it ~ some snap first.

But, if we're to go only by the word of someone who plans out and kills their spouse, what's to keep others (who aren't abused) from using that as an excuse?

[sadie]

Exactly..........even though my friends and co-workers weren't with me every day......they knew what was going on.....they saw the changes in personality.....for one thing.....they saw the changes in clothes......they were out with us when he would start fights with everyone else and were pretty sure it didn't stop when we left to go home......also just the way he referred to me and treated me in public wasn't that nice.

There are signs........and certainly if the woman works outside the house there should be someone that can testify to something. Even if no one ever actually saw him hit her..........these men have patterns.......

[gabriel]

sadie and WW, I'm appalled that you have had to endure abusive relationships. Superior physical strength does not equal the right to abuse those who are weaker. But you know that all men aren't like that.

She put up with this situation for 20 years and I really don't blame her, one bit, for killing him. But she was charged with premeditated murder and that's what this was. But obviously the jury thought she had more than enough reasons to kill him and they basically have spoken for society and said, OK, you're forgiven. Just don't do it again.

I hope she can get on with the rest of her life and find some peace. But she wouldn't have wanted me to be on that jury, I'm afraid.

[gabriel]

I was talking about this case this afternoon with some friends and they all agreed with me. He may well have been a mongrel and deserved what he got but she could have been charged with manslaughter and given a token 1 hour in the prison governor's office.

It may well be appealed. I hope it will be because this case is just sending out a bad message. What, I think, has sealed the deal for us is that she has apparently, made a deal with a TV station and a woman's mag to sell her story. I thought you couldn't profit from a crime you committed, but maybe that's only if you're found guilty.

[iamjumbo]

Jun 4, 2010 8:45:19 GMT -5 @gabriel said:

WW what I read this morning, it was all her say.

However, that doesn't make it not true. Who knows?

Domestic violence is a tricky situation.

I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. She couldn't leave him or he would come after her, or members of her family.

But not guilty of premeditated murder?

Like I said, I'm finding it hard to get my mind around that one.

in essence, you are right. and, she should have at least been convicted of manslaughter. yes, he might have come after her if she left, at which time she would have had every right to kill him. from what i see so far, the self defense trip just don't fly
of course, this is the real world. there's not an iota of doubt, in intelligent people, that simpson murdered nicole and ron, but, imbeciles on the jury acquitted him. if you're a defense attorney, these are the kind of juries you're looking for

[iamjumbo]

Jun 4, 2010 10:33:27 GMT -5 sadie said:

Oh....I forgot to make my point........I also knew it was time to leave....when he came home drunk one time and passed out taking his pants off......and it was all I could do not to take a baseball bat and beat him with it.......and then just say he came home that way. I actually had to walk around outside at 3 or 4 a.m. to keep from doing it. I'm not a violent person.......but I had gotten to that point. I would dream that he was dead.....and wake up and there he was and I would be sooooo disappointed. I was only married a year and half to this person.......I can't imagine longer..........I wouldn't have made it......or he wouldn't have. So I kind of understand the sentiment........and mind you he didn't beat the crap out of me......he pushed me over chairs....he knocked me into walls or other things....or I had constant finger prints around my arms.....like bracelets........he told me every day......every day.....that I was worthless and stupid and nobody would every want me and that I was ugly and fat......(I weighed 95 lbs at the time)......and after awhile I believed all that........it was so hopeless.........and every time he hurt me.....it was my fault that I had made him do that to me........

For those of you that haven't been there.....it's really hard to understand........I know that........

not really. i've dealt with a couple hundred of you, but, the part i never will comprehend is how you can allow yourself to believe stupidity that you know for a fact is a lie