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Post by markindurham on Apr 26, 2013 8:04:05 GMT -5
I see that there is still a deafening silence from the lady regarding benefits to society...
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 9:57:29 GMT -5
I don't jknoow which lady you mean; if you mean me then I've been totally upfront about my support for multicultrualism.
Now every society does benefit from multiculturalism;l exchange of ideas, cultures, music, food, a chance ot learn history, language and so on.
And I've got no time for Islam as a religion which is still stuck in the Middle Ages.
But trying to throw the multicultrual baby out with the bathwater is a big mistake.,
Douibng that will only lead to barbnariams and a totgl decline in moral and intelluectual standards
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Post by markindurham on Apr 26, 2013 10:30:08 GMT -5
I don't jknoow which lady you mean; if you mean me then I've been totally upfront about my support for multicultrualism. Now every society does benefit from multiculturalism;l exchange of ideas, cultures, music, food, a chance ot learn history, language and so on. And I've got no time for Islam as a religion which is still stuck in the Middle Ages. But trying to throw the multicultrual baby out with the bathwater is a big mistake., Douibng that will only lead to barbnariams and a totgl decline in moral and intelluectual standards No, donna - it wasn't your goodself I was alluding to You make a good point about multiculturalism; I agree, the concept is wonderful. However, it should evolve naturally & not be 'rammed down the throat' of the indigenous population by self-serving politicians. Islam cannot, and will not, be part of multiculturalism; it has no tolerance for anything other than its own narrow, misogynistic, controlling malign influence Mark
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on Apr 26, 2013 18:44:56 GMT -5
I don't jknoow which lady you mean; if you mean me then I've been totally upfront about my support for multicultrualism. Now every society does benefit from multiculturalism;l exchange of ideas, cultures, music, food, a chance ot learn history, language and so on. And I've got no time for Islam as a religion which is still stuck in the Middle Ages. But trying to throw the multicultrual baby out with the bathwater is a big mistake., Douibng that will only lead to barbnariams and a totgl decline in moral and intelluectual standards Question: which other countries have adopted the British model on "multiculturalism?" As far as I can tell, petty much all developed "multicultural" countries still lend pre-eminence to their long-standing traditions and norms with all others being secondary and having to fit in. Developing countries, with their hard-line forms of government, naturally tend to be rather intolerant of any perceived outside imposition on their own ways. It seems to only be Britain where new citizens are not actively encouraged to see themselves as British first and anything else second, with the majority culture, traditions and way of life being forced to adapt to the incomers rather than the other, more natural, way around.
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Post by markindurham on Apr 26, 2013 23:56:59 GMT -5
I don't jknoow which lady you mean; if you mean me then I've been totally upfront about my support for multicultrualism. Now every society does benefit from multiculturalism;l exchange of ideas, cultures, music, food, a chance ot learn history, language and so on. And I've got no time for Islam as a religion which is still stuck in the Middle Ages. But trying to throw the multicultrual baby out with the bathwater is a big mistake., Douibng that will only lead to barbnariams and a totgl decline in moral and intelluectual standards Question: which other countries have adopted the British model on "multiculturalism?" As far as I can tell, petty much all developed "multicultural" countries still lend pre-eminence to their long-standing traditions and norms with all others being secondary and having to fit in. Developing countries, with their hard-line forms of government, naturally tend to be rather intolerant of any perceived outside imposition on their own ways. It seems to only be Britain where new citizens are not actively encouraged to see themselves as British first and anything else second, with the majority culture, traditions and way of life being forced to adapt to the incomers rather than the other, more natural, way around. You get a K for that post, TF
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Post by mouse on Apr 27, 2013 4:56:25 GMT -5
multiculturalism is a little like painting....put your paints on your canvas separately and you have bright colours...mix the colours and you get other colours BUT if you don't mix your paints correctly you end up with a grimy slutch......its the mix which holds the importance
"""Now every society does benefit from multiculturalism;l exchange of ideas, cultures, music, food, a chance ot learn history, language and so on."" that is a very debateable assertion good like bad societies evolve over time..enforcement is not a natural progression....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 6:21:18 GMT -5
You only have to look at history to see that multiculturalism is beneficial and that not letting new ideas, cultures etc into the country leads to a decline in the civili8sation of the country
I think the real problem is that what too many people who say they don;'t likje multicultrualism really mean is they don't like foreigners or non-white people but don't have the guts to say so openly
At least with the neo-Nazis you know what they mean when they spout their filth
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Post by markindurham on Apr 29, 2013 6:33:34 GMT -5
You only have to look at history to see that multiculturalism is beneficial and that not letting new ideas, cultures etc into the country leads to a decline in the civili8sation of the country I think the real problem is that what too many people who say they don;'t likje multicultrualism really mean is they don't like foreigners or non-white people but don't have the guts to say so openly At least with the neo-Nazis you know what they mean when they spout their filth Yes, but... You CANNOT just dramatically alter the demos of a nation in a very short space of time & not expect resistance to change. That's not Xenophobic, racist or any other derogarory clarion call which the Left like to use, but simple human nature. The UK has welcomed incomers for many, many years, but not on the scale which we have seen since 2004. Mark
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Tempus Fugit
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Post by Tempus Fugit on Apr 29, 2013 6:57:35 GMT -5
I think the real problem is that what too many people who say they don;'t likje multicultrualism really mean is they don't like foreigners or non-white people but don't have the guts to say so openly Or it could just be that they are tolerant of incomers but not at the expense of the wider settled majority population and cultural norms, perhaps.
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Post by mouse on Apr 29, 2013 7:07:46 GMT -5
You only have to look at history to see that multiculturalism is beneficial and that not letting new ideas, cultures etc into the country leads to a decline in the civili8sation of the country I think the real problem is that what too many people who say they don;'t likje multicultrualism cbut don't have the guts to say so openly At least with the neo-Nazis you know what they mean when they spout their filth I think most people are bright enough to know the difference btween the spin of multiculture and a dislike of ahem non whites and foriegners[ really mean is they don't like foreigners or non-white people ][and you know this because??] for my self I am quite clear that I dislike and actively despise the pretence of politically motivated multiculture and find it an entirely different issue than foriegners and non whites etc etc why or how thise suddenly becomes related to Nazism I don't know..seems a bit of an extended leap to me
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Post by men an tol on Apr 29, 2013 7:14:34 GMT -5
Unquestionably the cross culture contacts and movement of concepts change societies. Overtime these changes are positive when the receiving culture has the time and opportunity to choose which are positive changes.
When those changes are forced on people, those people on both sides tend to suffer and the result may be negative relative to what existed in the past. Positive results may not occur and if they do they will be generations in the future.
Force can take on many forms. War is obviously one approach. Another is a society forcing its own people to accept new societal methods. The political correctness of governmental forced multiculturalism is such a method.
Today we have the West which has evolved a culture which has primarily produced a focus on individual freedom. That would seem to be a positive thing, but a number of Western governments have taken the position that change is good (apparently for the sake of change) and also protects a migrating foreign culture which is not supportive of individual freedom. This could be term cultural suicide by the West.
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Post by mouse on Apr 29, 2013 7:15:37 GMT -5
I think the real problem is that what too many people who say they don;'t likje multicultrualism really mean is they don't like foreigners or non-white people but don't have the guts to say so openly Or it could just be that they are tolerant of incomers but not at the expense of the wider settled majority population and cultural norms, perhaps. EXACTLY.....our cultural norms were diverse enough and had a broad remit to cater for all tastes....and we didn't have to listen to a load of old cobblers about multi..it already was multi facetted... cultures are born not forced.....cultures eveolve as ours did......
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Post by markindurham on Apr 29, 2013 8:17:38 GMT -5
Unquestionably the cross culture contacts and movement of concepts change societies. Overtime these changes are positive when the receiving culture has the time and opportunity to choose which are positive changes. When those changes are forced on people, those people on both sides tend to suffer and the result may be negative relative to what existed in the past. Positive results may not occur and if they do they will be generations in the future. Force can take on many forms. War is obviously one approach. Another is a society forcing its own people to accept new societal methods. The political correctness of governmental forced multiculturalism is such a method. Today we have the West which has evolved a culture which has primarily produced a focus on individual freedom. That would seem to be a positive thing, but a number of Western governments have taken the position that change is good (apparently for the sake of change) and also protects a migrating foreign culture which is not supportive of individual freedom. This could be term cultural suicide by the West. +1
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Post by markindurham on Apr 29, 2013 10:29:48 GMT -5
You only have to look at history to see that multiculturalism is beneficial and that not letting new ideas, cultures etc into the country leads to a decline in the civili8sation of the country I think the real problem is that what too many people who say they don;'t likje multicultrualism cbut don't have the guts to say so openly At least with the neo-Nazis you know what they mean when they spout their filth why or how thise suddenly becomes related to Nazism I don't know..seems a bit of an extended leap to me That Godwin gets about a bit, doesn't he?
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Post by maggie on Apr 30, 2013 11:44:36 GMT -5
We love death more than you love lifeSIX Islamic extremists have admitted planning a bloody attack at an English Defence League rally in a plot that failed only by chance despite one of them being under surveillance. Jewel Uddin, Omar Mohammed Khan, Mohammed Hasseen, Anzal Hussain, Mohammed Saud and Zohaib Ahmed today admitted preparing an act of terrorism between May 1 and July 4 last year. The murderous plan targeting the EDL only fell apart because the rally in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, finished earlier than the group had expected. Police and security services had no intelligence about the planned attack – despite one of the would-be killers being under surveillance in relation to another terrorist plan. Another of the group, Zohaib Ahmed, was also on bail for possession of terrorist documents at the time of the plot. All of the men except Hasseen travelled to the rally armed with two shotguns, swords, knives, a nail bomb containing 458 pieces of shrapnel, and a partially assembled pipe bomb, ready to cause mass injuries and deaths. The nail bomb was an 18-inch (46cm) long rocket which had been stuffed with shrapnel and was to be powered by explosives taken from at least two large fireworks. Police estimated there could have been up to 750 EDL marchers at the Dewsbury event, but also dozens of officers and innocent passers-by. The fanatics' plan failed by chance, because they arrived at 4pm when the rally had dispersed by 2pm. The planned attack was only uncovered because a traffic officer stopped Uddin and Khan on the M1 as they travelled back to their home town, Birmingham. He made checks on their Renault Laguna, which came up as being uninsured, and so the car was impounded. It was only two days later that staff at the pound near Sheffield looked at the contents of the Renault and found the gang's arsenal. There were also 10 copies of a hate-filled note addressed to the enemies of Islam, the Queen and Prime Minister David Cameron. It said: "This is a message to the enemies of Allah and his messenger. This is a message to the kafir (non-believer) female devil and self-proclaimed Queen Elizabeth and her accursed jubilee, fooling a nation of blind sheep to your self-proclaimed royalty and majesty." The document addressed the EDL directly, saying: "To the EDL (English Drunkards League). O enemies of Allah! We have heard and seen you openly insulting the final Messenger of Allah... you should know that for every action there is a reaction. "Today is a day of retaliation (especially) for your blasphemy of Allah and his Messenger Muhammad. We love death more than you love life. The penalty for blasphemy of Allah and his Messenger Muhammad is death. "What we did today was a direct retaliation of your insulting of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and also in retaliation of your crusade against Islam/Muslims on a global scale. It is of the greatest honour for us to do what we did." Four other men, including Anzal Hussain's brother Ishaaq, travelled to Pakistan for terror training as part of the plot, but were sent home when family members intervened. The men, who sat impassively together today changed their pleas and admitted their involvement via videolink – they will be sentenced on June 6.
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