|
Post by Soulman on Feb 6, 2013 17:30:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 7, 2013 3:51:33 GMT -5
what so called civilised country uses an industrial saw to amputate fingers and what sort of mindset allows this to be aceptable.......the religion of pieces is rightly named and what sort of religion has to terrify people into staying within its vicious doctrine Christianity? The Inquisition? The Rack? The Torture? The Burning Flames. Islamic womens rights in the Qur'an are no less than those of women in the OT. As is always the case it is the perverted interpretation of those scriptures that brings the problems. In very few ancient civilisations had women any rights. Most societies were Patriarchal (not all). "O Mankind, keep your duty to your Lord who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate (of same kind) and from them twain has spread a multitude of men and women...". [ Quran 4:1]
Stressing this noble and natural conception, them Quran states: "He (God) it is who did create you from a single soul and therefrom did create his mate, that he might dwell with her (in love)..." [ Quran 7:189] "The Creator of heavens and earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves" [ Quran 42:11] "And Allah has given you mates of your own nature, and has given you from your mates, children and grandchildren, and has made provision of good things for you. Is it then in vanity that they believe and in the grace of God that they disbelieve?" [ Quran 16:72]
The Quran tells us that woman is completely equal with man in the sight of God in respect of her rights and responsibilities.
"Every soul will be (held) in pledge for its deeds" [ Quran 74:38] And among His signs is this: That He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest, peace of mind in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are signs for people who reflect." "And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them, and men are a degree above them." [ Quran 2:228] (Relating to strength and protection). Islam allows women property and possessions, though many Muslims don't accept or follow this. They can also hold office. This does not apply to a 'Presidency'. The reason given is usually female the biological and physiological make-up. Islam of the modern age bears little resemblance to the Islam of the Qur'an. Even as Judaism on the time of Christ bore little resemblance to the Covenant of Sinai - OT. Even as the Christianity of today bears little resemblance to the teachings of Christ. All things get perverted over the space of time, due to man's own thoughts and desires. By the way. I am not a Muslim. There - that should get you going. OK, well, how do you interpret the bits about killing unbelievers? From www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htmQUOTE The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter. Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran UNQUOTE QUOTE Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology. UNQUOTE Bad ideology - indeed. QUOTE For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous. There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam. UNQUOTE Quite so. As others have said, the Quran is more like the Old Testament - on steroids... and very few people would profess to living according to its instructions, unlike the followers of islam. Until the Quran is updated into the 21st century, not stuck in the 7th, then nothing will change. As for women being viewed as equals, how does that square with, for example, islamic law stating that the word of a woman is less than that of a man? We hear of such things very regularly. Or the punishment, laid down in the Quran, for adultery? Now, in fairness, the HuffPo does have a piece suggesting that islam is not inherently violent www.huffingtonpost.com/kabir-helminski/does-the-quran-really-adv_b_722114.htmlHowever, one might suspect that the author has an agenda, looking at his strapline, and it is certainly a proven fact that wherever islam has spread, violence follows as their percentage of population grows in that area. So, I wonder if Trevor is now the poster who can disprove this
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 5:33:04 GMT -5
... it is certainly a proven fact that wherever islam has spread, violence follows as their percentage of population grows in that area. So, I wonder if Trevor is now the poster who can disprove this It's easy enough, Mark, for anyone to cite those few verses in the Koran that favours Islam. The stark reality is simple enough: The proof of the pudding is in the eating.And it's in the 'eating' that Islam leaves a bitter taste in the mouth every week if not every day. Prashna
|
|
|
Post by maggie on Feb 7, 2013 13:20:08 GMT -5
The Quran tells us that woman is completely equal with man in the sight of God in respect of her rights and responsibilities.
Someone needs to point that out to the taiban who tried to murder a school girl recently in Pakistan and frequently blow up girls' schools, for the heinous crime of getting an education.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 7, 2013 14:15:10 GMT -5
The Quran tells us that woman is completely equal with man in the sight of God in respect of her rights and responsibilities.
Someone needs to point that out to the taiban who tried to murder a school girl recently in Pakistan and frequently blow up girls' schools, for the heinous crime of getting an education. Shorely shome mishtake, maggie? After all, we're told that this is a peaceful religion, whose adherents are the best of people, who treat men and women pretty much equally, who are happy to coexist with other faiths and people whose values are not islamic... I don't think so, somehow...
|
|
ladylinda
Moderatorz
Poetry Editor
July 2011 Member of the Month, May 2014 Member of the Month
Posts: 4,901
|
Post by ladylinda on Feb 7, 2013 15:01:52 GMT -5
The Quran tells us that woman is completely equal with man in the sight of God in respect of her rights and responsibilities.
Someone needs to point that out to the taiban who tried to murder a school girl recently in Pakistan and frequently blow up girls' schools, for the heinous crime of getting an education. Shorely shome mishtake, maggie? After all, we're told that this is a peaceful religion, whose adherents are the best of people, who treat men and women pretty much equally, who are happy to coexist with other faiths and people whose values are not islamic... I don't think so, somehow... I have NEVER denied that there are bad Muslims, just like there are bad Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and atheists. Of course you can find anything in ANY sacred book to 'justify' oppression, cruelty and intolerance. You can also find things in any of them to support the OPPOSITE point of view. MOST Muslims ARE peaceful and in most Muslim countries women are treated no worse than they are in the West (which is pretty bad IMO but still) What bugs me is the way people try to twist things so the actions of a MINORITY of bad people get used to demonise an entire GROUP of people. It's as irrational as if, for instance, my Dad (an Ulster Protestant) had said ALL Catholics/Irish were IRA supporters; if I said ALL Spaniards supported the oppression of the Basque people (or, for that matter, that ALL Basques were supporters of ETA) and so it goes on. Stop judging the WHOLE by the PART. It;s illogical and prejudiced. It's also false.
|
|
|
Post by Soulman on Feb 7, 2013 15:47:57 GMT -5
Shorely shome mishtake, maggie? After all, we're told that this is a peaceful religion, whose adherents are the best of people, who treat men and women pretty much equally, who are happy to coexist with other faiths and people whose values are not islamic... I don't think so, somehow... I have NEVER denied that there are bad Muslims, just like there are bad Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and atheists. Of course you can find anything in ANY sacred book to 'justify' oppression, cruelty and intolerance. You can also find things in any of them to support the OPPOSITE point of view. MOST Muslims ARE peaceful and in most Muslim countries women are treated no worse than they are in the West (which is pretty bad IMO but still) What bugs me is the way people try to twist things so the actions of a MINORITY of bad people get used to demonise an entire GROUP of people. It's as irrational as if, for instance, my Dad (an Ulster Protestant) had said ALL Catholics/Irish were IRA supporters; if I said ALL Spaniards supported the oppression of the Basque people (or, for that matter, that ALL Basques were supporters of ETA) and so it goes on. Stop judging the WHOLE by the PART. It;s illogical and prejudiced. It's also false. So how come Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc etc, which are over 90% Muslim, are killing their own. So many Muslim dominated countries in turmoil. Then there is the pockets of Muslim areas in the West, where trouble and dominance is abound. Parts of Sweden, Southern France, East London, parts of Denmark, Germany....the list is endless. Where are the hotspots for trouble from Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs etc...not all around the world like the religion of "peace"
|
|
ladylinda
Moderatorz
Poetry Editor
July 2011 Member of the Month, May 2014 Member of the Month
Posts: 4,901
|
Post by ladylinda on Feb 7, 2013 16:31:44 GMT -5
Some is NOT the same as 'all' or even 'most.'
The mere FACT that MOST - let alone ALL - do NOT carry on like you say shows that you are factually WRONG.
Wrong; in error; making a statement that is untrue.
There are plenty of trouble with Sikhs in Britain as well as in India; there has also been trouble in Britain and America with Jewish extremists (though mainly in Israel).
And it doesn't matter a damn if an atrocity is committed in one country or more than one country.
You might as well argue that there was nothing wrong with ETA because they only targeted Spanish victims, or the IRA because they only targeted Irish or British ones.
I condemn ALL terrorism and ALL intolerance.
Why should people be soft on non-Muslims who behave in an evil way?
It's nothing more than prejudice and bigotry.
|
|
|
Post by Soulman on Feb 7, 2013 17:05:33 GMT -5
Some is NOT the same as 'all' or even 'most.' The mere FACT that MOST - let alone ALL - do NOT carry on like you say shows that you are factually WRONG. Wrong; in error; making a statement that is untrue. There are plenty of trouble with Sikhs in Britain as well as in India; there has also been trouble in Britain and America with Jewish extremists (though mainly in Israel). And it doesn't matter a damn if an atrocity is committed in one country or more than one country. You might as well argue that there was nothing wrong with ETA because they only targeted Spanish victims, or the IRA because they only targeted Irish or British ones. I condemn ALL terrorism and ALL intolerance. Why should people be soft on non-Muslims who behave in an evil way? It's nothing more than prejudice and bigotry. "It's nothing more than prejudice and bigotry." Not really, i think the FACT that the religion of "peace" can not even be peaceful amongst their own in predominantly Muslim countries, and then try to do the same around many many nations around the world, speaks for itself. This is my opinion, the same as i feel that yours is an opinion blinded by the fact that your BIL follows this ideology. Just a difference of opinion i suppose. Although my opinion will not see me cause havoc around the world. As for the other religions you mentioned, they cause very very little trouble around the world compared to Islam. You stated that Sikhs cause trouble in India, this is where they and Hindus etc reside...i note that the Muslims are also causing trouble in that country as well. Then we have the Muslims causing massive trouble in Southern Thailand...surprise surprise this is a mainly Buddhist country. Muslims cause trouble wherever they go.
|
|
|
Post by beth on Feb 7, 2013 17:10:47 GMT -5
Discussing one group with reprehensible behavior does not mean excusing other groups. It just means the discussion at the moment is directed toward the first. If we had to pick out and disdain all bad conduct each time we comment on one, there would be no time or space for any discussion at all.
Smells like ad hominem to me, Lin.
|
|
|
Post by fretslider on Feb 7, 2013 17:30:37 GMT -5
Discussing one group with reprehensible behavior does not mean excusing other groups. It just means the discussion at the moment is directed toward the first. If we had to pick out and disdain all bad conduct each time we comment on one, there would be no time or space for any discussion at all. Smells like ad hominem to me, Lin. Surely the thread title gives some illumination as to the subject matter under discussion. If indeed a member wishes to discuss other groups we have a neat device, it's called the Create New Thread button.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 8, 2013 1:43:52 GMT -5
Discussing one group with reprehensible behavior does not mean excusing other groups. It just means the discussion at the moment is directed toward the first. If we had to pick out and disdain all bad conduct each time we comment on one, there would be no time or space for any discussion at all. Smells like ad hominem to me, Lin. Surely the thread title gives some illumination as to the subject matter under discussion. If indeed a member wishes to discuss other groups we have a neat device, it's called the Create New Thread button. Well, quite so. A fine device it is too
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 8, 2013 1:53:24 GMT -5
I have NEVER denied that there are bad Muslims, just like there are bad Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and atheists. Of course you can find anything in ANY sacred book to 'justify' oppression, cruelty and intolerance. You can also find things in any of them to support the OPPOSITE point of view. MOST Muslims ARE peaceful and in most Muslim countries women are treated no worse than they are in the West (which is pretty bad IMO but still) What bugs me is the way people try to twist things so the actions of a MINORITY of bad people get used to demonise an entire GROUP of people. It's as irrational as if, for instance, my Dad (an Ulster Protestant) had said ALL Catholics/Irish were IRA supporters; if I said ALL Spaniards supported the oppression of the Basque people (or, for that matter, that ALL Basques were supporters of ETA) and so it goes on. Stop judging the WHOLE by the PART. It;s illogical and prejudiced. It's also false. So how come Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc etc, which are over 90% Muslim, are killing their own. So many Muslim dominated countries in turmoil. Then there is the pockets of Muslim areas in the West, where trouble and dominance is abound. Parts of Sweden, Southern France, East London, parts of Denmark, Germany....the list is endless. Where are the hotspots for trouble from Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs etc...not all around the world like the religion of "peace" Spot on. "'False', my fundament", as Jim Royle (almost) said... . One might be inclined to view Lin's objections as, well, 'selective indignation'... Now, I'm still waiting, as I'm sure are many others, to hear of an example of where the religion of peace has gone into a nation which doesn't have a history of being that way inclined and has NOT subsequently been identified as the source of much trouble within said nation, as the RoP tries to stamp its 'authority'.
|
|
|
Post by fretslider on Feb 8, 2013 3:16:03 GMT -5
So how come Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc etc, which are over 90% Muslim, are killing their own. So many Muslim dominated countries in turmoil. Then there is the pockets of Muslim areas in the West, where trouble and dominance is abound. Parts of Sweden, Southern France, East London, parts of Denmark, Germany....the list is endless. Where are the hotspots for trouble from Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs etc...not all around the world like the religion of "peace" Spot on. "'False', my fundament", as Jim Royle (almost) said... . One might be inclined to view Lin's objections as, well, 'selective indignation'... Now, I'm still waiting, as I'm sure are many others, to hear of an example of where the religion of peace has gone into a nation which doesn't have a history of being that way inclined and has NOT subsequently been identified as the source of much trouble within said nation, as the RoP tries to stamp its 'authority'. I'm still waiting to see the day when Islam enters a country and does any good whatsoever. I have a feeling that Satan will be skating to work before that day arrives. The modus operandi is always the same; a slow infiltration followed by a rapid multiplication. As the Weyland Yutani Corporation put it: It's what they call a shake and bake colony.
|
|
|
Post by markindurham on Feb 8, 2013 6:05:31 GMT -5
Spot on. "'False', my fundament", as Jim Royle (almost) said... . One might be inclined to view Lin's objections as, well, 'selective indignation'... Now, I'm still waiting, as I'm sure are many others, to hear of an example of where the religion of peace has gone into a nation which doesn't have a history of being that way inclined and has NOT subsequently been identified as the source of much trouble within said nation, as the RoP tries to stamp its 'authority'. I'm still waiting to see the day when Islam enters a country and does any good whatsoever. I have a feeling that Satan will be skating to work before that day arrives. The modus operandi is always the same; a slow infiltration followed by a rapid multiplication. As the Weyland Yutani Corporation put it: It's what they call a shake and bake colony. I'm looking forward to the counter-argument to that post, Fret *opens popcorn*
|
|