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Post by Shirina on Dec 19, 2012 11:37:30 GMT -5
Nationalized health care for starters.
Did you know that recent polls show that Americans are more worried about the bill than they are about the diagnosis? In other words, if an American is diagnosed with cancer, the first thought isn't "Is it treatable?" or "How long do I have?" Rather, it is "How much will it cost?" "Will I have enough?" "How will this affect my family's financial future?"
Living in a nation where it is considered a God given right to own guns while health care remains a privelege is no picnic.
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Post by mouse on Dec 19, 2012 12:11:03 GMT -5
the caring sharing religion shows its human side yet again Taliban kills five women aid workers in Pakistan as they administer polio vaccine Four women aid workers gunned down in the southern city of Karachi and another killed in a village outside the north-west city of Peshawar Aid workers were administering polio jabs as part of 3-day vaccination drive Taliban claim the campaign to immunise children is a cover for U.S. spies The Taliban murdered five women polio health workers in a series of attacks in Pakistan today. The victims were shot in the head at close range, two of them as they administered vaccine drops to young children. The killings halted a polio campaign that international health officials say is vital to contain the crippling disease but which the Taliban claim is a cover for US spies. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250051/Taliban-kill-women-polio-aid-workers-Pakistan-administer-vaccines-children.html#ixzz2FWDfubUG Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Post by mouse on Dec 19, 2012 12:15:37 GMT -5
Nationalized health care for starters. Did you know that recent polls show that Americans are more worried about the bill than they are about the diagnosis? In other words, if an American is diagnosed with cancer, the first thought isn't "Is it treatable?" or "How long do I have?" Rather, it is "How much will it cost?" "Will I have enough?" "How will this affect my family's financial future?" Living in a nation where it is considered a God given right to own guns while health care remains a privelege is no picnic. are Americans prepared to [pay for a national health care ?? we wouldnt be without ours...but we do get sick and tired of being ripped off by those who have never put a penny in the pot...and the more who rip us off the less there is to go around for those who foot the bill how do you think a general vote on health care would go..yes or no
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 12:20:32 GMT -5
Nationalized health care for starters. Did you know that recent polls show that Americans are more worried about the bill than they are about the diagnosis? In other words, if an American is diagnosed with cancer, the first thought isn't "Is it treatable?" or "How long do I have?" Rather, it is "How much will it cost?" "Will I have enough?" "How will this affect my family's financial future?" Living in a nation where it is considered a God given right to own guns while health care remains a privelege is no picnic. You can say that again. I'm almost to the point where I wish I did have terminal cancer, so my wife and kids could get the life insurance after I'm dead.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 13:00:38 GMT -5
Nationalized health care for starters. Did you know that recent polls show that Americans are more worried about the bill than they are about the diagnosis? In other words, if an American is diagnosed with cancer, the first thought isn't "Is it treatable?" or "How long do I have?" Rather, it is "How much will it cost?" "Will I have enough?" "How will this affect my family's financial future?" Living in a nation where it is considered a God given right to own guns while health care remains a privelege is no picnic. You can say that again. I'm almost to the point where I wish I did have terminal cancer, so my wife and kids could get the life insurance after I'm dead. it shouldn't have to be that way but it is. i have dental insurance and have to pay a co pay of 20%.....alot of good that does me when a dentist demands money up front and I don't have the credit to pay for the dental work....so what good is the dental doing me?
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Post by men an tol on Dec 20, 2012 16:13:58 GMT -5
To want something is not a bad thing. To demand something be provided through the power of government at the expense of others is merely the strong dominating the weak, the majority taking from the minority.
Classical-Liberals understood this and believed in the rights of the individual and here in America supported and worked through the Constitution of the United States. Progressive-Liberals function as those who use government to control others in op[position to the Constitution.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 18:44:53 GMT -5
I believe you are making huge presumptions and trying to push all literals & progressives under a small umbrella.
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Post by men an tol on Dec 20, 2012 23:56:43 GMT -5
Skoster33, your comment, “ . . . I believe you are making huge presumptions and trying to push all literals & progressives under a small umbrella. . . “ is one with which I'm quite familiar. I don't know where you reside but most of my comments of this type are focused on the environment of the United States. The Classical-Liberal (i.e., such as F.A. Hayek) is primarily of the 1880s and while they had a concern of social welfare and sought to improve the lot of people's lives, they saw individual rights and freedom as the significant element in society and supported a foundation of Capitalistic Free Markets to ensure that freedom and reach those goals.
This is not the Liberal philosophy of today as it has made a transition into Progressivism which is quite different from that Classical-Liberalism. Woodrow Wilson is considered by many as one of the primary definers of the Progressive movement. In this movement government becomes dominate over the individual, in fact, as Wilson stated in the 1880s the U.S. Constitution is an impediment to efficient government and those who run government should define what should be done and then do it without regard to either the Constitution or the rights of the individual. This is seen in the attitudes of our current President Obama and is stated belief that the Constitution is a flawed document due to its being based on negative rights, not positive ones. There is no historical or legal foundation for such a view.
It was within this form of Progressivism that the term liberal became connected as did socialism and resulted in Progressive Socialism and Progressive Liberalism merging. In the evolution since that merging, the social concerns of the classical liberal morphed into government controlled actions and the Capitalistic Free Markets have increasingly been diminished to be replaced by socialist values.
Presumptive? Not at all!
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Jessiealan
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Member of the Month, October 2013
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Post by Jessiealan on Dec 21, 2012 21:33:07 GMT -5
But you are watching from the sidellines Men an tol. Making judgement calls as it were.
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Post by men an tol on Dec 21, 2012 23:07:37 GMT -5
Jessiealan your comment, “ . . . But you are watching from the sidellines Men an tol. Making judgement calls as it were. . . “ is somewhat confusing. How do you come to the conclusion that I'm watching from the sidelines. I can only guess that you mean that I am not involved and I do not understand how you can make that assumption with no data.
As to making judgment calls, certainly this is not a simple subject which can be addressed with bumper sticker level assertions, but I did offer authoritative sources so I wonder if you find them not credible or not sufficient in quantity or quality. If so, please let me know as I can provide others. Obviously this is not the best environment for providing the depth of information I suspect you would like so to save others from having to read through pages of comment let me suggest a couple of sources you might find of interest. One is the text book on the Hillsdale College Constitution course which is an excellent course and a great book. Another is “American Progressivism” edited by Ronald J. Pestritto and William J. Atto. Which addresses this subject and provides many additional sources.
I use both of these books as reference sources when I give seminars on constitutional history. If you would expand on your comments I would appreciate it.
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Post by mouse on Dec 22, 2012 4:42:28 GMT -5
it really doesnt matter what political or social terminology is used and some times it just muddies the water as a none liberal and none socialist to see human beings suffer when the technology and the medical expertease is available to take awy or ease that suffering within our tribe ...is wrong and its doubly wrong in our present age..when we all pay vast amounts into a national pot for the common good of our tribe if we acept a standing army and an education service and a national government and public housing ...then there is no ilogicallity in acepting medical services as also aceptable for the common good of course those most against this will be the insurence companies and medical experts who see a diminished income.....and those silly enough to see madical aid as comunist etc ie political/socila/religious
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 12:57:56 GMT -5
it would seem to me to be in the best interest of a country such as the United States to offer a medical program for all citizens based on ability to pay as then the populace is healthy and able to be contributing citizens to the country.
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Post by markindurham on Dec 22, 2012 13:21:22 GMT -5
it would seem to me to be in the best interest of a country such as the United States to offer a medical program for all citizens based on ability to pay as then the populace is healthy and able to be contributing citizens to the country. That was pretty much how our system was supposed to work - above a certain income you paid a percentage of your earnings as "National Insurance", which was SUPPOSED to cover pensions and healthcare. Sadly, NI still exists, but because of our ballooning population, many of whom have never contributed a penny into the pot, said pot is pretty much empty
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Post by markindurham on Dec 22, 2012 15:05:51 GMT -5
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Post by men an tol on Dec 22, 2012 16:28:39 GMT -5
Although it is talked down or disregarded, anyone within the United States can receive medical care regardless of ability to pay. Here in my local county we have more than one people's clinic which is free to those with no money. Every year or two there is a dental clinic open to all for no cost and all of their dental needs are taken care of there.
While the people's clinic does receive some tax funding it also gets private sector donations.
The dental clinic is all volunteered by dental professionals.
Anyone who shows up an hospital emergency room will receive that emergency care.
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