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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 16:15:05 GMT -5
[ It is the intolerant people who are the problem; multiculturalists by definition oppose intolerance. Very funny. Why is Islam so intolerant, then. Why do muslims think they are superior? The cultural marxists delude themselves at every turn. It is quite extraordinary to see so many elementary errors in such a short fact. Islam is not intolerant; some Muslims are. Muslims do not think they are superior; some Muslims do (just as some Christians, Jews, Hindus and if it comes to that some atheists do). And it is you who is the cultural Marxist. And of course to answer what I assume was a rhetorical question. Muslims who are intolerant are by that very fact NOT supporters of multiculturalism but OPPONENTS of it. Multiculturalism and jihadism are incompatible. It really is that simple and I find it incredible that you cannot appear to grasp the most elementary logical or semantic concepts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 16:17:43 GMT -5
if there was a peaceful coexistence, then why did the Muslim woman in America bitch about the sign that advertised bacon? She can take her "offensive" and shove it up her ass and go where bacon isn't consumed or shut up. Chris, I honestly believed you were too intelligent to imagine that an entire group of people could or should be demonised because of the behaviour of individuals. That is on the same level as asserting that because most people convicted of murder in the US are black that therefore most blacks in the United States are murderers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 16:18:17 GMT -5
Your point is well taken Chefmate, there is not now or in the past, peaceful coexistence with Islam. To them we are Kafir and Muslims cannot abide Kafir or they are not Muslims. False on every level. Factually incorrect.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 16:20:37 GMT -5
if there was a peaceful coexistence, then why did the Muslim woman in America bitch about the sign that advertised bacon? She can take her "offensive" and shove it up her ass and go where bacon isn't consumed or shut up. smiley 1 But no doubt the bleats of "It's only a few" etc will be ringing out... To point out that the actions of individuals or a minority ARE those of a minority is not bleating. It is a simple statement of fact. The bleating is from the bigoted and prejudiced people who foment hatred. That is as true of fanatical Muslims as it is of fanatical antiMuslims. Neither of them believes in multiculturalism.
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Post by beth on Aug 29, 2014 16:26:34 GMT -5
smiley 1 But no doubt the bleats of "It's only a few" etc will be ringing out... To point out that the actions of individuals or a minority ARE those of a minority is not bleating. It is a simple statement of fact. The bleating is from the bigoted and prejudiced people who foment hatred. That is as true of fanatical Muslims as it is of fanatical antiMuslims. Neither of them believes in multiculturalism. Don't you think, though, that by putting themselves out there and shouting down the moderates, the extremists have become the definitive Muslims, and the majority has allowed this to happen without effective intervention? That's the way it seems to me.
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Post by markindurham on Aug 29, 2014 16:48:31 GMT -5
smiley 1 But no doubt the bleats of "It's only a few" etc will be ringing out... To point out that the actions of individuals or a minority ARE those of a minority is not bleating. It is a simple statement of fact. The bleating is from the bigoted and prejudiced people who foment hatred. That is as true of fanatical Muslims as it is of fanatical antiMuslims. Neither of them believes in multiculturalism. Cobblers, old boy. Utter cobblers We can get along just fine; Christians, Jews, agnostics, Sikhs, Buddhists, Mormons, Moonies, Hindus etc etc. Put muslims into the equation and it all falls in a heap. Always has, always will.
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Post by markindurham on Aug 29, 2014 16:50:59 GMT -5
Well, you can believe what you like, but until there is a large scale and public uprising by the muslim community against any form of islamic extremism I and many others will continue to hold a negative opinion of islam. I fear that snow will fall in Hades, as it were, before we see such a thing, but, as ever, I stand to be corrected. If, and basis present evidence it is an enormous IF, it happens then I will be the first to hold my hand up and admit that I was in error. I'm not << in the muddy waters of political paranoia and conspiracy theorists>> at all; indeed I laugh in the face of such obfuscation. Nice try, but epic fail You are entitled to believe that the earth is flat if you so wish but your demand for 'a large scale and public uprising by the Muslim community against islamic extremism' has been happening for about ten years now. Over a million Turks marched AGAINST it; even leading Saudi clerics have now condemned it; most British Muslim associations have condemned it; and so on. The problem is that those with closed eyes and closed minds refuse to see because they are too blinkered by their preconceptions. In any event the fundamental ERROR in this whole thread is the very title of it. By definition multiculturalism is opposed to jihadism and therefore by definition jihadists have NOT been fuelled by multiculturalism but are reacting against it. Simple logic and language. Now I imagine there is more hope of the Ayatollah Khameini converted to Christianity than there is of you admitting that you are wrong but I live in hope that perhaps you may see the light of reason and recognise your error. Thanks for that - it's just brightened my evening
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Post by men an tol on Aug 29, 2014 18:17:55 GMT -5
yesterday at 3:05pm men an tol said: “ . . . Your point is well taken Chefmate, there is not now or in the past, peaceful coexistence with Islam. To them we are Kafir and Muslims cannot abide Kafir or they are not Muslims. . . . “
Mike responded with “ . . . False on every level. Factually incorrect. . . . “
Clearly Mike believes this assertion of his, however, no matter how strongly he feels about it, using the writings of Islam can present a very different picture and demonstrate why it is reasonable to conclude that Muslims have no desire to get along with kafir. Remember the Islamic texts (the Trilogy) are absolute and even though they are dualistic a Muslim must believe and act on them. Following here is one view of this Trilogy:
There is a division of the Trilogy that overwhelms the reader of the historical Qur'an. A majority of the text concerns the kafir (unbeliever). It is not about being a Muslim, but about the kafir. A note: most Qu'ran translations use the word “unbeliever” instead of kafir, but kafir is the actual Arabic word.
This term is so important and so unknown that the meaning of kafir must be defined. The original meaning of the word is one who covers or conceals the known truth. A kafir knows that the Qu'ran is true, but denies it. The Qu'ran says that the kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse. The word is usually translated as “unbeliever” but this translation is wrong. The word “unbeliever” is logically and emotionally neutral, whereas, kafir is the most abusive, prejudiced and hateful word in any language.
There are many religious names for kafirs: polytheists, idolaters, People of the Book (Christians and Jews), atheists, agnostics, and pagans. Kafir covers them all, because no matter what the religious name is, they can all be treated the same. What Mohammed said and did to polytheists can be done to any other category of kafir. Islam devotes a great amount of energy to the kafir. Not only is the majority (64%) of the Qu'ran devoted to the kafir, but also nearly all of the Sira (81%) deals with Mohammed’s struggle with them. The Hadith (Traditions) devotes 32% of the text to kafirs4. Following are the percentages of the texts of the Trilogy devoted to the kafir. Meccan Qu'ran 68% Medinan Qu'ran 57% Total Qu'ran 64% Sira 81% Hadith 37% Trilogy total 60%
Religious Islam is defined as doctrine concerned with going to Paradise and avoiding Hell by following the Qur'an and the Sujnna (the Trilogy), worshiping as Mohammad worshiped. The part of Islam that deals with the “outsider,” the kafir, is defined as political Islam. Since so much of the Trilogy is about the kafir, the statistical conclusion is that Islam is primarily a political system, not a religious system.
Mohammed's success depended on politics (in this case politics includes violence as acceptable actions to convert the kafir or eliminate them), not religion. The Sira, Mohammad's biography, gives a highly detailed accounting of his rise to power. He preached the religion for 13 years in Mecca and garnered 150 followers. He was forced to move to Medina and became a politician and a warrior where he gained many, many times that number (150) as his followers. During the last 19 years of his life he was involved in an event of violence every 6 weeks. When he died every Arab was a Muslim about 100,000 which were brought to Islam by political jihad.
May I suggest that if what I have offered is false at every level, then a case can be made that then so are the Islamic Texts, that is, false at every level.
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Post by fretslider on Aug 30, 2014 3:37:24 GMT -5
Very funny. Why is Islam so intolerant, then. Why do muslims think they are superior? The cultural marxists delude themselves at every turn. It is quite extraordinary to see so many elementary errors in such a short fact. Islam is not intolerant; some Muslims are. Muslims do not think they are superior; some Muslims do (just as some Christians, Jews, Hindus and if it comes to that some atheists do). And it is you who is the cultural Marxist. And of course to answer what I assume was a rhetorical question. Muslims who are intolerant are by that very fact NOT supporters of multiculturalism but OPPONENTS of it. Multiculturalism and jihadism are incompatible. It really is that simple and I find it incredible that you cannot appear to grasp the most elementary logical or semantic concepts. Multiculturalism and jihadism are incompatible.Islam and western values are totally incompatible It really is quite obvious - unless of course you want to remain in denial.
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Post by mouse on Aug 30, 2014 5:18:34 GMT -5
""""Islam is not intolerant; some Muslims are.""""" pricless absolutely pricless islam is not intollorant some muslims are ? and just where do these muslims get their mantra from ?? surprise they get the intollorance and so many of their other pretty little ways straight from the horses or camels mouth so to speak
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Post by markindurham on Sept 25, 2014 12:15:47 GMT -5
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Post by beth on Sept 25, 2014 12:52:50 GMT -5
I was thinking about this last night. Imagine if one of our political parties reorganized into a cult and instead of trying to shout down or out-manipulate those who don't agree with them, they take it upon themselves to kill the opposition. The superficial things in life would mean less and less as people faced a struggle to hold on to life itself. ISIS are serious. You don't agree with them in their immediate company, they won't hesitate to kill you, and the beheadings make it up-close and very personal. It we are affected so deeply by that, one doesn't have to work very hard to imagine the impact in Iraq and Syria. You and Fret might be noble enough to say, "kill me if you must", but I'm willing to bet there are a lot of middle-easterners who would rather join up and live, if possible.
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Post by beth on Sept 25, 2014 12:58:55 GMT -5
... and that's why those with extreme views and influence should be set out ... now, without further ado ... forget their "rights to a family life" and other various arguments. Set the whole family out, back to the country of origin, now.
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Post by markindurham on Sept 25, 2014 13:18:24 GMT -5
... and that's why those with extreme views and influence should be set out ... now, without further ado ... forget their "rights to a family life" and other various arguments. Set the whole family out, back to the country of origin, now. Agreed 100%. However, what do you do with those who were born in your own country? You can't deport them. Personally, I believe that they are 'enemies of the state', and should be treated as such, as they present a clear and present danger to the rest of society, despite what the right-ons will say. What's the solution? You can't give them an area to live in, because they will simply carry on demanding more and more, as we have seen so many times before. Appeasement doesn't work. Never has done; never will do. The only language the islamist understands is force. Always has done; always will do. I would give all that wish to live in an islamic country under islamic rule a one-way ticket, & cancel their passports once they get there, as part of the deal. Trouble is, what islamic country will take them? Other than, presumably, IS...
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Post by beth on Sept 25, 2014 13:23:56 GMT -5
Well, there's always the option to lock them up on suspicion of treason. Not an option? Then, find a pretext to send them to France. I'm sure the French would conjure up some solution if you greased enough palms.
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