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Post by men an tol on Feb 25, 2018 15:11:48 GMT -5
Sounds like propaganda to me. So Beth, you believe that what I wrote is not true?
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Post by Dex on Feb 25, 2018 16:23:18 GMT -5
If we are going to do something to end such killings then we should be looking at causes, however, that doesn’t address the obsession with guns. And so, it is likely that we will have more laws about guns and not at the causes of the violence.
Both of them - causes of violence and assault rifles available and at the ready - are parts of the problem.
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Post by men an tol on Feb 25, 2018 17:11:07 GMT -5
If we are going to do something to end such killings then we should be looking at causes, however, that doesn’t address the obsession with guns. And so, it is likely that we will have more laws about guns and not at the causes of the violence. Both of them - causes of violence and assault rifles available and at the ready - are parts of the problem. I suspect that we can agree that someone initiating killing a ‘mass’ of people (not defensive in nature) is probably not normal. I am glad to be made aware that the causes of such actions are known and available. Addressing only the causes of violence, what are those causes? Since they are known we should be able to address them in a way that they can be minimized if not totally eliminate them So please let me know those causes of such violence.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 25, 2018 19:42:01 GMT -5
If we are going to do something to end such killings then we should be looking at causes, however, that doesn’t address the obsession with guns. And so, it is likely that we will have more laws about guns and not at the causes of the violence. Both of them - causes of violence and assault rifles available and at the ready - are parts of the problem. I suspect that we can agree that someone initiating killing a ‘mass’ of people (not defensive in nature) is probably not normal. I am glad to be made aware that the causes of such actions are known and available. Addressing only the causes of violence, what are those causes? Since they are known we should be able to address them in a way that they can be minimized if not totally eliminate them So please let me know those causes of such violence. Incorrect thinking for starters. But some people act due to fear without having had time to think. Depending on how a person has been brought up is also a factor as to how one behaves and ofcourse the one that I believe is really the cause, Karma.!!! Some parents can rear their children by the book, never putting a foot wrong, and still their children's behavior is alien to what they have been taught.you have to ask why, so you may be waiting for ever for a true diagnosis of the cause.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 25, 2018 20:02:31 GMT -5
The usual doubletalk from gun control nazis. What they want is to "sensibly" disarm everyone but police and military. That might seem to be the answer, but not everyone agrees with that supposition. Police themselves have been accused of firing and killing a person without necessarily having a valid reason to do so. They are evidently in a similar position as to the man in the street who owns a gun. They fire through fear and wrong thinking.
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Post by men an tol on Feb 25, 2018 20:15:39 GMT -5
I suspect that we can agree that someone initiating killing a ‘mass’ of people (not defensive in nature) is probably not normal. I am glad to be made aware that the causes of such actions are known and available. Addressing only the causes of violence, what are those causes? Since they are known we should be able to address them in a way that they can be minimized if not totally eliminate them So please let me know those causes of such violence. Incorrect thinking for starters. But some people act due to fear without having had time to think. Depending on how a person has been brought up is also a factor as to how one behaves and ofcourse the one that I believe is really the cause, Karma.!!! Some parents can rear their children by the book, never putting a foot wrong, and still their children's behavior is alien to what they have been taught.you have to ask why, so you may be waiting for ever for a true diagnosis of the cause. If you look back in the thread Scottish Lassie I was seeking answers and was informed that the causes are known, so, I asked to see them. I truth I do not think that such mental abnormalities are that simple to define and that where such drive a person to commit such acts, I do not believe that it is easy to determine what they are. However, I could be wrong and if so, I really would like to hear someone explain what they are. I will say here that your philosophy of past life actions defining our current lives, is not something that I believe, so your expounding on that would be a lost cause. However, I do accept the strong possibility that much of our thinking is tied to, and driven by, chemical actions (or lack of them) occurring within our body, mostly in the brain. Even so, I am interested in the ideas of others on what drives people to commit acts of violence and what people can do to locate such people and ‘adjust’ possible future acts.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 25, 2018 21:42:12 GMT -5
Incorrect thinking for starters. But some people act due to fear without having had time to think. Depending on how a person has been brought up is also a factor as to how one behaves and ofcourse the one that I believe is really the cause, Karma.!!! Some parents can rear their children by the book, never putting a foot wrong, and still their children's behavior is alien to what they have been taught.you have to ask why, so you may be waiting for ever for a true diagnosis of the cause. If you look back in the thread Scottish Lassie I was seeking answers and was informed that the causes are known, so, I asked to see them. I truth I do not think that such mental abnormalities are that simple to define and that where such drive a person to commit such acts, I do not believe that it is easy to determine what they are. However, I could be wrong and if so, I really would like to hear someone explain what they are. I will say here that your philosophy of past life actions defining our current lives, is not something that I believe, so your expounding on that would be a lost cause. However, I do accept the strong possibility that much of our thinking is tied to, and driven by, chemical actions (or lack of them) occurring within our body, mostly in the brain. Even so, I am interested in the ideas of others on what drives people to commit acts of violence and what people can do to locate such people and ‘adjust’ possible future acts. I cannot ever go past the reason for conditions in every country today as having Karma as a reason, and that started away back to the creation of the physical dimension . I can only speak for myself and the experiences that I have had and what I have been shown due to these experiences. If two people marry and have children, then it stands to reason that the children should have a mixture of the parents traits. If the parents have not shown any signs of mental aberrations, and their behaviour towards all of their children, has been by the book and therefore lawful and good, why on earth are their children so different that one can end up a criminal and the other a Saint perhaps? To me that is very puzzling except for Karma being part of the equasion.
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Jessiealan
xr
Member of the Month, October 2013
Posts: 8,726
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Post by Jessiealan on Feb 25, 2018 22:13:10 GMT -5
Even so, I am interested in the ideas of others on what drives people to commit acts of violence and what people can do to locate such people and ‘adjust’ possible future acts. Fears and compulsions, plus the gun culture that emboldens them to act out. The first time they go out and buy an assault rifle they are giving in to the compulsion. From there, it may only be a matter of time unless something happens to turn them. Take away access to those weapons, and the add ons that only make them worse, and I think you would be amazed at the difference it would make. Then, stop giving these depraved killers fame and notoriety. They are not celebrities to use for role models. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Jessiealan
xr
Member of the Month, October 2013
Posts: 8,726
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Post by Jessiealan on Feb 25, 2018 22:21:00 GMT -5
If we are going to do something to end such killings then we should be looking at causes, however, that doesn’t address the obsession with guns. And so, it is likely that we will have more laws about guns and not at the causes of the violence. Both of them - causes of violence and assault rifles available and at the ready - are parts of the problem. I suspect that we can agree that someone initiating killing a ‘mass’ of people (not defensive in nature) is probably not normal. I am glad to be made aware that the causes of such actions are known and available. Addressing only the causes of violence, what are those causes? Since they are known we should be able to address them in a way that they can be minimized if not totally eliminate them So please let me know those causes of such violence. Men an tol, please stop trying to be droll and facetious and give it a little thought. It could be various things, but having easy access to guns could certainly turn a quick passing murderous thought into a deadly reality. You are an NRA apologist. Our country would be better off without that greedy organization.
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Post by beth on Feb 25, 2018 23:11:44 GMT -5
Sounds like propaganda to me. So Beth, you believe that what I wrote is not true? I think it's your point of view, but not mine. My opinion is that in order to push back and reduce the frequency of these mass murders, we can't rant and wail about them for a few weeks and then continue in status quo. There must be changes. Sopme blame depraved people, some blame guns. I say it's both. Let's make a few adjustments and measure the difference it makes.
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Post by beth on Feb 25, 2018 23:13:48 GMT -5
If we are going to do something to end such killings then we should be looking at causes, however, that doesn’t address the obsession with guns. And so, it is likely that we will have more laws about guns and not at the causes of the violence. Both of them - causes of violence and assault rifles available and at the ready - are parts of the problem. I understand what you're saying, Dex. I just wrote something similar. It's the people AND the guns.
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Post by mouse on Feb 26, 2018 3:40:00 GMT -5
More than once I have offered the fact that the largest school mass killing took place in 1927 and did not include any gun and 38 children and 6 adults died. That fact is simply ignored. Men, you've been trying to push this down our throats in 2 or 3 posts. We see it, we see it, we see it. But in case you didn't notice it is an isolated incident almost a hundred years ago. It was sad but our concern is bringing a stop to what's happening here and not. Right now, guns are relevant and we need to find a way to deal with it. That could mean giving up on our bribed lawmakers at the national level and taking it to the states. if you know they are bribed.. why vote for them ?.. the biigest shock to our so called representatives is when they expect to be returned and then either they are not of the numbers who vote for them are greatly reduced... its been my pleasure to watch some of ours reduced to almost speechlessness with shock I wish you all well with this struggle all I have heard from the other side ie pro gun for what ever reasons are excuses.. and not one of those excuses is valid for the people by the people... or.... for business and vested interests as enforced by business and vested interests
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Post by mouse on Feb 26, 2018 4:07:33 GMT -5
long article but most interesting www.americanheritage.com/content/america-gun-culturethe United States is the only modern industrial urban nation that persists in maintaining a gun culture. It is the only industrial nation in which the possession of rifles, shotguns, and handguns is lawfully prevalent among large numbers of its population. It is the only such nation that has been impelled in recent years to agonize at length about its own disposition toward violence and to set up a commission to examine it, the only nation so attached to the supposed “right” to bear arms that its laws abet assassins, professional criminals, berserk murderers, and political terrorists at the expense of the orderly population—and yet it remains, and is apparently determined to remain, the most passive of all the major countries in the matter of gun control. Many otherwise intelligent Americans cling with pathetic stubbornness to the notion that the people’s right to bear arms is the greatest protection of their individual rights and a firm safeguard of democracy—without being in the slightest perturbed by the fact that no other democracy in the world observes any such “right” and that in some democracies in which citizens’ rights are rather better protected than in ours, such as England and the Scandinavian countries, our arms control policies would be considered laughable.
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Post by Dex on Feb 26, 2018 10:15:53 GMT -5
Men, you've been trying to push this down our throats in 2 or 3 posts. We see it, we see it, we see it. But in case you didn't notice it is an isolated incident almost a hundred years ago. It was sad but our concern is bringing a stop to what's happening here and not. Right now, guns are relevant and we need to find a way to deal with it. That could mean giving up on our bribed lawmakers at the national level and taking it to the states. if you know they are bribed.. why vote for them ?.. the biigest shock to our so called representatives is when they expect to be returned and then either they are not of the numbers who vote for them are greatly reduced... its been my pleasure to watch some of ours reduced to almost speechlessness with shock I wish you all well with this struggle all I have heard from the other side ie pro gun for what ever reasons are excuses.. and not one of those excuses is valid for the people by the people... or.... for business and vested interests as enforced by business and vested interests A lot of people do speak out, mouse, but there's a lot that don't care a bit as long as they can buy and keep guns. That's the part of this country that's called the "gun culture". Do they care that kids get shot and killed? Of course they do, but they have a warped way of looking at it when it comes to the guns.
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Post by men an tol on Feb 26, 2018 13:21:02 GMT -5
I suspect that we can agree that someone initiating killing a ‘mass’ of people (not defensive in nature) is probably not normal. I am glad to be made aware that the causes of such actions are known and available. Addressing only the causes of violence, what are those causes? Since they are known we should be able to address them in a way that they can be minimized if not totally eliminate them So please let me know those causes of such violence. Men an tol, please stop trying to be droll and facetious and give it a little thought. It could be various things, but having easy access to guns could certainly turn a quick passing murderous thought into a deadly reality. You are an NRA apologist. Our country would be better off without that greedy organization. Jessiealan, I am not trying to be ‘droll’ or ‘facetious’ but rather nonconfrontational. And yet it seems that I have not found how to do that. I ask a rather straight foreword question and the response I receive has nothing to do with what I asked. Instead I receive a critique of the form of my question. It is almost as if the desire of others is to enter into combative questions and answers. I look at what I said and try to figure out what I did that was wrong. I started the posting with: “. . .I suspect that we can agree that someone initiated killing a mass of people (not defensive in nature) is probably not Normal. . . “ And then continued with “ . . . I am glad to be made aware that the causes of such actions are known and available. . .” To this point Jessiealan I merely agreed with Dex, but then I continued a question and began that by clarifying the coming question with “ . . . Addressing only the causes of violence . . . “ following with the actual question: “ . . . what are those causes? . . . “ and followed that with the reason for that question: “ . . .Since they are known we should be able to address them in a way that they can be minimized if totally eliminate them. . . “ First Jessiealan, if this is droll and/or facetious, I do not see how. It is merely asking for clarification. Not receiving an answer, either my question was missed or, Dex had no answers beyond what he posted. While it is an interesting generalization, it has no specifics. Maybe I should have been more definitive in my original question, such as: If it is a mental cause, which type is it? Has this type of mental problem been addressed in the past and treated. Has it been treated successfully. Have people with this type of disease been treated in the past, and has that treatment been successful. Are there protocols for finding people with this mental disease before they initiate violence.
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