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Post by Sysop3 on Aug 16, 2017 18:51:14 GMT -5
On average, just one or two children with Down's syndrome are born in Iceland each year
celand is close to becoming the first country where no-one gives birth to a child with Down's syndrome. Pre-natal tests were introduced in the early 2000s, and the vast majority who receive a positive test have terminated their pregnancy. While the tests are optional, all expectant mothers are informed about their availability, and up to 85 per cent choose to take it. It’s called the Combination Test, and uses ultrasound and blood tests – as well as factoring in the mother’s age.  "Some of them were low risk in our screening test, so we didn't find them in our screening.” Helga Sol Olafsdottir counsels women who are considering ending their pregnancy over a foetal abnormality. She says she tells mothers: “This is your life. You have the right to choose how your life will look like.” She told a reporter: “We don't look at abortion as a murder. We look at it as a thing that we ended. “We ended a possible life that may have had a huge complication... preventing suffering for the child and for the family. And I think that is more right than seeing it as a murder -- that's so black and white. “Life isn't black and white. Life is grey.” www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/iceland-downs-syndrome-no-children-born-first-country-world-screening-a7895996.html
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Post by Sysop3 on Aug 16, 2017 18:52:00 GMT -5
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Post by beth on Aug 17, 2017 0:51:54 GMT -5
To me, this is confusing because it suggests that by aborting Downs Syndrom infants, early on, it would be possible to put an end to that condition ... which would be a good thing. OTOH, I know a couple of American families who have a Downs Syndrome child and that child is very precious to them.
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Post by mouse on Aug 17, 2017 4:26:14 GMT -5
families with a down child/adult do indeed consider them as precious ...
but with the greatest will in the world brining up a downs family member is not easy and requires great sacrifices from family members
from every thing I have observed downs do not enhance family life
I know two personally and while they are very loved its been a high price for the rest of the family to pay to pay ...
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Jessiealan
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Post by Jessiealan on Aug 17, 2017 17:25:35 GMT -5
I shall go along with mouse on this one. I believe one of the things that is given as a reason for Downs Syndrom babies is mothers who conceive and have children at a later age. This is more common than ever now. All babies are a joy but sometimes it is bittersweet.
We cannot expect too much. Being able to correct this in Iceland, and any kind of success here with dogmatic Christians and others who would oppose any similar effort are light years apart.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 18:14:47 GMT -5
I shall go along with mouse on this one. I believe one of the things that is given as a reason for Downs Syndrom babies is mothers who conceive and have children at a later age. This is more common than ever now. All babies are a joy but sometimes it is bittersweet. We cannot expect too much. Being able to correct this in Iceland, and any kind of success here with dogmatic Christians and others who would oppose any similar effort are light years apart. it's murder. what else can you call it? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 23:17:15 GMT -5
I shall go along with mouse on this one. I believe one of the things that is given as a reason for Downs Syndrom babies is mothers who conceive and have children at a later age. This is more common than ever now. All babies are a joy but sometimes it is bittersweet. We cannot expect too much. Being able to correct this in Iceland, and any kind of success here with dogmatic Christians and others who would oppose any similar effort are light years apart. it's murder. what else can you call it? |
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Post by mouse on Aug 18, 2017 6:56:42 GMT -5
I shall go along with mouse on this one. I believe one of the things that is given as a reason for Downs Syndrom babies is mothers who conceive and have children at a later age. This is more common than ever now. All babies are a joy but sometimes it is bittersweet. We cannot expect too much. Being able to correct this in Iceland, and any kind of success here with dogmatic Christians and others who would oppose any similar effort are light years apart. it's murder. what else can you call it? no it isn't murder cheffy.. any more than contraception is murder by default.. though there are those who think that way when the abortion is carried out legally and before the components can survive out side of the womb without medical interference it cannot be stretched into being murder.. pregnancy is not a cut and dried event.. not every pregnancy is met with joy.. and not every pregnancy is going to end with a healthy normal child at the end of it doesn't a woman have a right to prefer a healthy wanted child raher than a child she has to have simply because other people have decreed she must have no say in the matter and doesn't a baby deserve to be born to parents who want and love it and who can give a good life Iceland wont breed out downs .. that is not possible medically as yet and downs can be born to younger parents as well as older ones one of the downs I know is the grandson of my friend in wales.. his mother was in her mid twenties when Ben was born and his father on the cusp of 30yers the other downs a girl [Jessica incidently] was born to parents the mother nearly 40 and the father mid 40s In one case the mother didn't want the babe and would have been happy to leave him in hospital.. needless to say it broke up the marriage even more so when they had another child who wasn't downs I the other case the parents have done every thing they possibly could to reduce the downs effects by widening the scope of Jessicas life.. |
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Post by mouse on Aug 18, 2017 7:08:55 GMT -5
of course eugenics are a nasty word shades of pre 39... but we now have choices and knowledge...abortion for medical reasons such as downs,, huntindon chorea etc that really should not be inflicted on any living creature[downs can vairy in degree of disability not apparent before birth] so why allow little beings to be born that face life times of medical interference and pain and fear none of which they understand is that really what any one wishes to inflict on another human being |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 10:04:16 GMT -5
it's murder. what else can you call it? no it isn't murder cheffy.. any more than contraception is murder by default.. though there are those who think that way when the abortion is carried out legally and before the components can survive out side of the womb without medical interference it cannot be stretched into being murder.. pregnancy is not a cut and dried event.. not every pregnancy is met with joy.. and not every pregnancy is going to end with a healthy normal child at the end of it doesn't a woman have a right to prefer a healthy wanted child raher than a child she has to have simply because other people have decreed she must have no say in the matter and doesn't a baby deserve to be born to parents who want and love it and who can give a good life Iceland wont breed out downs .. that is not possible medically as yet and downs can be born to younger parents as well as older ones one of the downs I know is the grandson of my friend in wales.. his mother was in her mid twenties when Ben was born and his father on the cusp of 30yers the other downs a girl [Jessica incidently] was born to parents the mother nearly 40 and the father mid 40s In one case the mother didn't want the babe and would have been happy to leave him in hospital.. needless to say it broke up the marriage even more so when they had another child who wasn't downs I the other case the parents have done every thing they possibly could to reduce the downs effects by widening the scope of Jessicas life.. I disagree. A life is being taken and there is no justification for it in spite of all the pretty words. America owes an apology to Hitler as this country has outdone him on murders of the innocent plus I see no difference between Iceland and the nazis...same outcome, destroy what is not to a set standard. Canada seems to be allowing abortions if the parents don't want the baby because of the babies sex...that is disgusting. |
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Post by mouse on Aug 19, 2017 3:24:06 GMT -5
""Canada seems to be allowing abortions if the parents don't want the baby because of the babies sex...that is disgusting""
that will be a sop to the religion and cultures of the backwards in all probability
I wouldn't put my worst enemy through what some children go through in the way of operations and disabilities and in herited genes which in some cases can put them through a living hell of constant fear and pain... luckily nature appears to favour abortion and prevents birth some times .. have we really to go backwards and force women to have pregnancies they want oe the alternative is some backstreet woman with a knitting needle....and babies born regardless of how malformed kept alive by medical intervention or alternately born and put to one side to gasp their life away in pain
every one has a perfect right yo their opinion.. but I wonder just how much research anti abortionists do into abortion/birth etc in a cool unemotional way... some lives are not worth living
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 13:40:29 GMT -5
"some lives are not worth living"
could that not apply to the elderly who become infirm, those disabled through accidents, people hopelessly addicted to drugs or alcohol, or maybe like Hitler's thinking...the Jews.
ISIS has decided anyone who won't share their beliefs is not fit to live.
When we legalized the killing of the unborn, we opened a door {hell} a very slippery slope and there's no stopping the evil that is coming forth.
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Post by Dex on Aug 19, 2017 14:06:43 GMT -5
Nicely said, Chef.
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Post by mouse on Aug 20, 2017 3:16:20 GMT -5
"some lives are not worth living" could that not apply to the elderly who become infirm, those disabled through accidents, people hopelessly addicted to drugs or alcohol, or maybe like Hitler's thinking...the Jews. ISIS has decided anyone who won't share their beliefs is not fit to live. When we legalized the killing of the unborn, we opened a door {hell} a very slippery slope and there's no stopping the evil that is coming forth. yes it could stretch to almost any situation is we twist and turn it enough...your talking about already breathing individuals i am not but the fact remains if a clot of blood which cannot SURVIVE INDEPENDENTLY out side of the womb is ejected then there is no way it can be considered murder but by your reconing then contraception is also murder in that it prevent the natural progression of both egg and sperm is it murder if a miscrarriage happens ? is a miscarriage murder? your both very light hearted about some one elses pain..pain or situation which makes lives NOT worth living...are you both seriously saying your happy to sentence people to a life time or pain ,,suffering..disability .. i don't believe either of you to be so crue or callous l.. your both too genuine and too human to wish a life time of suffering on any one.. of course your argument can be twisted yet again...that medical intervention often prevents death and or disability by interfering in the natural order of things i am pro life.. pro a life worth living.... i also beliefe we have a perfect right to end our lives at our choosing it all comes down to choice .. where once we had no choice now we do have choices.. its up to the individual to use those choices and not turn choice into licence the reality for my friends grandson has been roughly two operations per year of his life... he will be 15 in November..it took three grown men to restrain him the last time he went berserk because the doc inadvertently mentioned the word hospital... he doesn't understand why this or that .. all he knows is that hospital mean pain .. doctors mean pain.. nurses mean pain .. and him coming round after a procedure is pitiful to watch and because he cannot comprehend its also very very frightening as is his screamings when his is in pain |
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Omega
