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Post by beth on Dec 4, 2016 1:49:41 GMT -5
So then you expect others to just take your own opinions as gospel even though you're obviously quite prejudiced?
You're right that I need to go back and read you long post and comment. I'm tired and need to sleep, so, maybe tomorrow after I finish setting up the Cabinet topic.
Niters
As and when
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Post by True Patriot on Dec 4, 2016 1:55:26 GMT -5
It doesn't seem to me Obama had much choice in the matter. Bush et al left him a horrible situation. He did the best he could under those circumstances. That's the narrative. A great President that couldn't get anything beneficial done even by hook or by crook. Even when his party had complete control over the federal government. But hey...Nobel Peace Prize Winner! He even got two Grammys...Jimmy Carter, Willliam Jefferson Blythe Clinton III and Hillary Rodham Clinton only got one each...LMAO. It's so easy to sell people who make decisions based on emotion by using carefully crafted perceptions.
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Post by True Patriot on Dec 4, 2016 2:17:40 GMT -5
So then you expect others to just take your own opinions as gospel even though you're obviously quite prejudiced? I expect people to accept my opinions as my opinions, nothing more and nothing less. I've made my perspective quite clear in my posts. I oppose authoritarianism and deceit and I support individual liberty through the use of a constitutional republic. You're not prejudiced? Fact are very different. I've presented plenty of facts and it is disingenuous for the staff to insinuate otherwise as the latest tactic to discredit me. People should review my posts. Do I footnote every point...No...I don't have the time. I have researched many of these issues over many years using many sources both online and off. I am more than willing to admit to a mistake, but until there is a series of legitimate examples that the facts I present are flawed then it seems fair that I should be extended the same courtesy as everyone else. If you have an issue with something I present as a fact then research it. If you find that it is erroneous then challenge me. That is exactly what I do. Unlike others, I won't consider it an insult as long as the challenge is legitimate. And unlike many, I will admit when I make an error of fact. You're right that I need to go back and read you long post and comment. I'm tired and need to sleep, so, maybe tomorrow after I finish setting up the Cabinet topic. I didn't say that you should read my posts, though that would be a positive development. I suggested that others review my posts to determine if the representations made about them are accurate or not.
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Post by mouse on Dec 4, 2016 5:41:15 GMT -5
theres always some one who is going yo be upset...when your a leader you have to sup with a very long spoon the one thing the Chinese need??? overseas trade...they are not going to risk that...so its a bit of foot stamping and noise to bring him into line ...them holding American debt is nothing compared with with the amounts of stuff China makes and exportd..under licence or not..they need the American market....just in case America looks sideways at India the international club realise he is not a polito or carreer afficianado...hes is bound to get his tail pulled a few times ...par for the course...plus the media will jump on anything which shows Trump in any sort of bad light Well ... maybe .. but to jump right in before taking the oath of office, or, indeed, understanding the delicate balance, seems unnecessary and .. well ... ignorant. Hope it's uphill from here. am not playing devils advocate here at all... but perhaps its time there was some plain speaking we all know politos say one thing in public and one thing in private[a couple of politos including Blair have been caught out on this..... its not as though he has done a trade deal with Taiwan...all it was was a phone call.... tomes change and times are changing ....
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Post by men an tol on Dec 4, 2016 7:48:39 GMT -5
True Patriot, your most recent posting have been excellent such as the following to point to only a few: gatesofbabylon.com/post/211420/thread gatesofbabylon.com/post/211153/thread gatesofbabylon.com/post/211101/thread Part of the challenge, in my opinion, is that you are making these points in an empty auditorium, so to speak. One speaks and others respond to specific points made with agreement or disagreement supported by facts. This would seem to be easy to do since the history of these things exist and are easily determined as factual or not. However, many times that doesn’t seem to be the case as the historical facts are passed over, or words are reinterpreted in to something that clearly wasn’t meant, or somehow the historical facts are disremembered and rewritten as something else. This has been one of the slowest recovery rates (from an economic down turn) in modern times, As demonstrated by the Labor Participation Rate: Even with the current year, the figures are stagnant and relative to 2007 - 2008 demonstrate a significant drop. Add to this the rising cost-of-living during this same period accompanied with the largest national debt trend ever to occur (forcing a decline in the value of the dollar dropping on the world markets) and the continued rise in regulation of U.S. Business and a case could be made that we marching onward to an economic disaster. This is not just an indictment of the Obama Administration but demonstrates the economic downward trends of both of the President Bush as well as the President Obama administrations. It is an honor to have your support, but you need to realize that what you consider a presentation of the facts relative to the topic of the conversation is actually minimizing, twisting and turning for different perspectives. Not to mention my making a habit of ridiculing people in my posts. As was said, "I've been following your posts, Truepatriot, and you often (almost always) attack the poster instead of replying to the contents of the post. Why?" No matter how hard I look I just can't seem to recognize that I am almost always attacking posters instead of replying to the contents of their posts. Clearly you are having an issue seeing that as well. Oh...And repeating accusations as a way of illustrating that they have little merit is a form of sarcasm and is a no-no because it hurts the feelings of the person who made the unjustifiable assertions. Which explains why I'm deserving of being insulted and made a target for derision. Has nothing to do with my exposing deceit and erroneous understandings. After all, I'm a ridiculous, arrogant, paranoid, smart-assed, childish, dubious, right-wing professional forum agitating lunatic that lacks confidence...and...I ridicule people...or so the members of this forum are told...LMAO I really don't care other than it inhibits genuine exchanges. Whatever. I guess I have not read things correctly as I would have likened you more to John Adams. Of course you are probably taller.
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Post by True Patriot on Dec 4, 2016 10:32:14 GMT -5
It is an honor to have your support, but you need to realize that what you consider a presentation of the facts relative to the topic of the conversation is actually minimizing, twisting and turning for different perspectives. Not to mention my making a habit of ridiculing people in my posts. As was said, "I've been following your posts, Truepatriot, and you often (almost always) attack the poster instead of replying to the contents of the post. Why?" No matter how hard I look I just can't seem to recognize that I am almost always attacking posters instead of replying to the contents of their posts. Clearly you are having an issue seeing that as well. Oh...And repeating accusations as a way of illustrating that they have little merit is a form of sarcasm and is a no-no because it hurts the feelings of the person who made the unjustifiable assertions. Which explains why I'm deserving of being insulted and made a target for derision. Has nothing to do with my exposing deceit and erroneous understandings. After all, I'm a ridiculous, arrogant, paranoid, smart-assed, childish, dubious, right-wing professional forum agitating lunatic that lacks confidence...and...I ridicule people...or so the members of this forum are told...LMAO I really don't care other than it inhibits genuine exchanges. Whatever. I guess I have not read things correctly as I would have likened you more to John Adams. Of course you are probably taller. That is so funny...I would liken YOU more to John Adams or Benjamin Franklin and I would think I would be perceived to be more of a firebrand like Sam Adams or Patrick Henry, though in a less confrontational environment my preference would be the forgotten patriot George Mason.
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Post by annaj26 on Dec 4, 2016 10:39:58 GMT -5
It doesn't seem to me Obama had much choice in the matter. Bush et al left him a horrible situation. He did the best he could under those circumstances. That's the narrative. A great President that couldn't get anything beneficial done even by hook or by crook. Even when his party had complete control over the federal government. But hey...Nobel Peace Prize Winner! He even got two Grammys...Jimmy Carter, Willliam Jefferson Blythe Clinton III and Hillary Rodham Clinton only got one each...LMAO. It's so easy to sell people who make decisions based on emotion by using carefully crafted perceptions. Maybe you should sit down before you laugh, TP. I hate to think how little you have left to sit on. LMAO makes me want to ignore whatever it is you're talking about.
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Post by annaj26 on Dec 4, 2016 11:06:41 GMT -5
Whatever, TP. If you expect other people to supply you with sources, then you might want to do the same. You seem unfamiliar with my posts and my integrity. I don't usually post links to opinion articles like many do. Perhaps you should attempt to discredit me by declaring which specific facts I've presented are flawed. Are you capable of doing that? Arrogant and insulting. Another reason I'm not interested in your posts.
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Post by beth on Dec 4, 2016 12:23:42 GMT -5
It doesn't seem to me Obama had much choice in the matter. Bush et al left him a horrible situation. He did the best he could under those circumstances. That's the narrative. A great President that couldn't get anything beneficial done even by hook or by crook. Even when his party had complete control over the federal government. But hey...Nobel Peace Prize Winner! He even got two Grammys...Jimmy Carter, Willliam Jefferson Blythe Clinton III and Hillary Rodham Clinton only got one each...LMAO. It's so easy to sell people who make decisions based on emotion by using carefully crafted perceptions. You have a list of achievements. You have tried to lessen a few of them, but that still leaves a lot of accomplishments. I'll let it go at that. It's really hard for me to relate to so much bias and subjectivity. My mind doesn't work that way. I have to consider both sides.
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Post by beth on Dec 4, 2016 12:50:22 GMT -5
So then you expect others to just take your own opinions as gospel even though you're obviously quite prejudiced? I expect people to accept my opinions as my opinions, nothing more and nothing less. I've made my perspective quite clear in my posts. I oppose authoritarianism and deceit and I support individual liberty through the use of a constitutional republic. You're not prejudiced? Fact are very different. I've presented plenty of facts and it is disingenuous for the staff to insinuate otherwise as the latest tactic to discredit me. People should review my posts. Do I footnote every point...No...I don't have the time. I have researched many of these issues over many years using many sources both online and off. I am more than willing to admit to a mistake, but until there is a series of legitimate examples that the facts I present are flawed then it seems fair that I should be extended the same courtesy as everyone else. If you have an issue with something I present as a fact then research it. If you find that it is erroneous then challenge me. That is exactly what I do. Unlike others, I won't consider it an insult as long as the challenge is legitimate. And unlike many, I will admit when I make an error of fact. You're right that I need to go back and read you long post and comment. I'm tired and need to sleep, so, maybe tomorrow after I finish setting up the Cabinet topic. I didn't say that you should read my posts, though that would be a positive development. I suggested that others review my posts to determine if the representations made about them are accurate or not. I told you I lean left so of course I see things from that perspective most of the time ... but that doesn't have to eliminate being able to see both sides of a back and forth argument. If you give opinion, that's fine, though it would be nice if you identify it as such. If you present facts, on the other hand, a source is required to have them taken seriously. I think Randy is one of those who has insisted on that in the past. Shouldn't be too hard. You are pressing for inclusion of what you call "genuine examples", so sourced facts shouldn't be too much to expect in return. I'm guessing you have spent a lot of time on research. I, personally, do not have that kind of time available, so I try to find the best information I can online. There is plenty of good info available here and there. I DO consider the source. Nobody here should feel there is a snob approach to information and be discouraged from following the breadcrumbs for bits and pieces to share. If you would rather spend time in conventional libraries or buy and peruse books and periodicals, that's certainly your choice. The advantage of online research is that current affairs can change in the blink of an eye. Here, it's usually possible to update smoothly.
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Post by men an tol on Dec 4, 2016 14:57:23 GMT -5
That's the narrative. A great President that couldn't get anything beneficial done even by hook or by crook. Even when his party had complete control over the federal government. But hey...Nobel Peace Prize Winner! He even got two Grammys...Jimmy Carter, Willliam Jefferson Blythe Clinton III and Hillary Rodham Clinton only got one each...LMAO. It's so easy to sell people who make decisions based on emotion by using carefully crafted perceptions. You have a list of achievements. You have tried to lessen a few of them, but that still leaves a lot of accomplishments. I'll let it go at that. It's really hard for me to relate to so much bias and subjectivity. My mind doesn't work that way. I have to consider both sides. Beth I’m sure that you won’t be surprised when I say that I understand him quite easily. Being bias is simply a reflection of supporting one’s beliefs. Subjectivity may be no more than trying not to offend. Whatever the case, I will offer my opinion that in the future, those who look back will have a hard time picking the worse President between President Carter and President Obama. During President Obama’s terms, we have seen the world position of the United States decrease in nearly all areas. For example, we now must rebuild our military in nearly all of its functions. We have wasted huge amounts of money by having the national government get involved with the private sector for no purpose. The economic recovery has been one of the slowest in our history. Of course, the Affordable Care Act is a growing disaster. Our national debt is nearly beyond belief. Internal race relations are as bad as I have ever seen them. While the focus has been on jobs, the labor force participation rate is getting worse. The potential for terrorist acts within our borders is increasing.
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Post by beth on Dec 4, 2016 20:47:37 GMT -5
Beth I’m sure that you won’t be surprised when I say that I understand him quite easily. Being bias is simply a reflection of supporting one’s beliefs. Subjectivity may be no more than trying not to offend. Whatever the case, I will offer my opinion that in the future, those who look back will have a hard time picking the worse President between President Carter and President Obama. During President Obama’s terms, we have seen the world position of the United States decrease in nearly all areas. For example, we now must rebuild our military in nearly all of its functions. We have wasted huge amounts of money by having the national government get involved with the private sector for no purpose. The economic recovery has been one of the slowest in our history. Of course, the Affordable Care Act is a growing disaster. Our national debt is nearly beyond belief. Internal race relations are as bad as I have ever seen them. While the focus has been on jobs, the labor force participation rate is getting worse. The potential for terrorist acts within our borders is increasing. Good post but your perspective is so different from mine that to reply would be to encourage a long off-topic discussion. No-go. I'd like the Health Care thread to get back on track. If that doesn't happen soon (not a threat but a promise ) I'll close this one down and start a brand new one.
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Post by men an tol on Dec 4, 2016 21:04:22 GMT -5
Beth I’m sure that you won’t be surprised when I say that I understand him quite easily. Being bias is simply a reflection of supporting one’s beliefs. Subjectivity may be no more than trying not to offend. Whatever the case, I will offer my opinion that in the future, those who look back will have a hard time picking the worse President between President Carter and President Obama. During President Obama’s terms, we have seen the world position of the United States decrease in nearly all areas. For example, we now must rebuild our military in nearly all of its functions. We have wasted huge amounts of money by having the national government get involved with the private sector for no purpose. The economic recovery has been one of the slowest in our history. Of course, the Affordable Care Act is a growing disaster. Our national debt is nearly beyond belief. Internal race relations are as bad as I have ever seen them. While the focus has been on jobs, the labor force participation rate is getting worse. The potential for terrorist acts within our borders is increasing. Good post but your perspective is so different from mine that to reply would be to encourage a long off-topic discussion. No-go. I'd like the Health Care thread to get back on track. If that doesn't happen soon (not a threat but a promise ) I'll close this one down and start a brand new one. That's fine.
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Post by True Patriot on Dec 4, 2016 22:54:14 GMT -5
That's the narrative. A great President that couldn't get anything beneficial done even by hook or by crook. Even when his party had complete control over the federal government. But hey...Nobel Peace Prize Winner! He even got two Grammys...Jimmy Carter, Willliam Jefferson Blythe Clinton III and Hillary Rodham Clinton only got one each...LMAO. It's so easy to sell people who make decisions based on emotion by using carefully crafted perceptions. Maybe you should sit down before you laugh, TP. I hate to think how little you have left to sit on. LMAO makes me want to ignore whatever it is you're talking about. You've already promised to ignore MenanTol and I. My guess is that you have read and yet ignored my posts, or more likely dismissed them. If so, then you probably still believe that Hillary Rodham Clinton committed no crimes and that Noam Chomsky does not promote anarchism. Am I right? Often times remaining ignorant is less a condition of a lack of exposure than it is a conscious choice to be purposefully ill-informed. There's a setting in your profile for ignoring people, you said you were going to use it, perhaps you do so so that I no longer unintentionally hurt your feelings with the truth. Who knows, some day I may call you a hot-headed, arrogant, narrow-minded and one-sided loon. Nah...I wouldn't call you a hot-headed narrow-minded one-sided loon...That would be rude and might be viewed as ridiculing you. But hey...Accuse me of insulting people while saying whatever want about others...You're special.
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Post by True Patriot on Dec 4, 2016 23:06:24 GMT -5
You have a list of achievements. You have tried to lessen a few of them, but that still leaves a lot of accomplishments. I'll let it go at that. It's really hard for me to relate to so much bias and subjectivity. My mind doesn't work that way. I have to consider both sides. Beth I’m sure that you won’t be surprised when I say that I understand him quite easily. Being bias is simply a reflection of supporting one’s beliefs. Subjectivity may be no more than trying not to offend. Whatever the case, I will offer my opinion that in the future, those who look back will have a hard time picking the worse President between President Carter and President Obama. During President Obama’s terms, we have seen the world position of the United States decrease in nearly all areas. For example, we now must rebuild our military in nearly all of its functions. We have wasted huge amounts of money by having the national government get involved with the private sector for no purpose. The economic recovery has been one of the slowest in our history. Of course, the Affordable Care Act is a growing disaster. Our national debt is nearly beyond belief. Internal race relations are as bad as I have ever seen them. While the focus has been on jobs, the labor force participation rate is getting worse. The potential for terrorist acts within our borders is increasing. You're wasting your breathe...Facts do not matter anymore. You must get in touch with your feelings. "Ignorance is Strength!" "Orthodoxy means not thinking...not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness."~1984 Orwell
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