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Post by talisman on Mar 2, 2011 9:14:56 GMT -5
She didn't see this coming! I'm used to superstitious people denying facts that conflict with their own prejudices. Right, here's a brief comment. 1 The statistical requirements that parapsychologists use to claim a statistically significant result are HIGHER than those needed for 'mainstream' scientific experiments. 2 Psychokinesis, remote viewing, clairvoyance, telepathy and precognition HAVE been demonstrated again and again under controlled conditions in scientific laboratories. 3 Intelligence agencies, particularly the CIA and KGB, made extensive use of parapsychology over the years. I can't helo it if people prefer their comforting superstitious beliefs to the uncomfortable facts! It's unlucky to be superstitious. ~ Sheesh! We're right back in the Hitler-was-a-member-of-the-Communist-Party Universe again. Bold assertions — No corroborating sources. No sources at all in this bout. You're at the bottom of the exact same hole, Lady Linda, digging away. Can't you see that? If Peter and I are superstitious, Muammar Gaddafi is Mother Teresa.
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Post by sadie on Mar 2, 2011 11:40:51 GMT -5
I don't think you are being fair.......dreams aren't always based in facts or anything concrete. I think this is more a discussion on beliefs and "what do you think"......so I'm not going for this cite this or cite that.......I'm interested in what people think or what they have experienced also in this discussion.
People are going to be able to cite from articles that support their theories and people that don't in this discussion..............I don't want anyone feeling attacked or that they can't state their ideas.
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Post by peterf on Mar 2, 2011 12:11:22 GMT -5
She didn't see this coming! I'm used to superstitious people denying facts that conflict with their own prejudices. Right, here's a brief comment. 1 The statistical requirements that parapsychologists use to claim a statistically significant result are HIGHER than those needed for 'mainstream' scientific experiments. 2 Psychokinesis, remote viewing, clairvoyance, telepathy and precognition HAVE been demonstrated again and again under controlled conditions in scientific laboratories. 3 Intelligence agencies, particularly the CIA and KGB, made extensive use of parapsychology over the years. I can't helo it if people prefer their comforting superstitious beliefs to the uncomfortable facts! If believing 1,2 and 3 make you happy My Lady go ahead. Lots of people believe comforting lies - usually religious in nature - so why should I be a spoilsport?
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Post by biglin on Mar 2, 2011 15:06:51 GMT -5
I'm used to superstitious people denying facts that conflict with their own prejudices. Right, here's a brief comment. 1 The statistical requirements that parapsychologists use to claim a statistically significant result are HIGHER than those needed for 'mainstream' scientific experiments. 2 Psychokinesis, remote viewing, clairvoyance, telepathy and precognition HAVE been demonstrated again and again under controlled conditions in scientific laboratories. 3 Intelligence agencies, particularly the CIA and KGB, made extensive use of parapsychology over the years. I can't helo it if people prefer their comforting superstitious beliefs to the uncomfortable facts! If believing 1,2 and 3 make you happy My Lady go ahead. Lots of people believe comforting lies - usually religious in nature - so why should I be a spoilsport? Since 1, 2 & 3 are TRUE, Peter, you're obviously in denial of facts that contradict your cosy superstitions. I don't care if you want to hold on to your comforting beliefs but they ARE delusional!
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Post by sadie on Mar 2, 2011 15:45:27 GMT -5
Ok....back to discussing our own opinions on dreams........not opinions on each other's opinions.......
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Post by maggie on Mar 2, 2011 16:03:41 GMT -5
Don't know about dreams predicting the future but we certainly dream (well I do) about strange things when we've got stuff in our lives to worry about and the dreams are so weird. Here's an example: A couple of years ago I had such a vivid dream that I've never forgotten it. It was so real I thought I was awake at the time. In the dream, I got up in the middle of the night and went to the front door of my house. The door was wide open and I saw that outside a hearse was parked at the side of the road in front of my house, with a coffin inside. I couldn't move, just stared at it, but eventually went back to bed but left the front door wide open being too frightened to close it. Don't know what could've been the meaning of that dream!!!
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Post by talisman on Mar 2, 2011 16:19:02 GMT -5
If believing 1,2 and 3 make you happy My Lady go ahead. Lots of people believe comforting lies - usually religious in nature - so why should I be a spoilsport? Since 1, 2 & 3 are TRUE, Peter, you're obviously in denial of facts that contradict your cosy superstitions. I don't care if you want to hold on to your comforting beliefs but they ARE delusional! What's the point of this line of "argument", Lady Linda? You've taken it so ridiculously far now that there must be a deliberate strategy involved. But what can it be, and what's the point? Go on, give us a clue.
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Post by fretslider on Mar 2, 2011 16:40:36 GMT -5
If believing 1,2 and 3 make you happy My Lady go ahead. Lots of people believe comforting lies - usually religious in nature - so why should I be a spoilsport? Since 1, 2 & 3 are TRUE, Peter, you're obviously in denial of facts that contradict your cosy superstitions. I don't care if you want to hold on to your comforting beliefs but they ARE delusional! I asked you which confidence interval the paranormal researchers use, as you claim it is higher than usual. But I'm 95% confident (geddit!) that you just made that up.
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Post by sadie on Mar 2, 2011 18:21:27 GMT -5
Don't know about dreams predicting the future but we certainly dream (well I do) about strange things when we've got stuff in our lives to worry about and the dreams are so weird. Here's an example: A couple of years ago I had such a vivid dream that I've never forgotten it. It was so real I thought I was awake at the time. In the dream, I got up in the middle of the night and went to the front door of my house. The door was wide open and I saw that outside a hearse was parked at the side of the road in front of my house, with a coffin inside. I couldn't move, just stared at it, but eventually went back to bed but left the front door wide open being too frightened to close it. Don't know what could've been the meaning of that dream!!! I have very vivid and strange dreams sometimes also.........have always wondered about them. You hear that all sorts of things mean this or that.....but I just think it is such a subjective field.......who really knows.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 9:42:07 GMT -5
Since 1, 2 & 3 are TRUE, Peter, you're obviously in denial of facts that contradict your cosy superstitions. I don't care if you want to hold on to your comforting beliefs but they ARE delusional! I asked you which confidence interval the paranormal researchers use, as you claim it is higher than usual. But I'm 95% confident (geddit!) that you just made that up. Why? What is your rationale for such an assertion?
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Post by beth on Mar 3, 2011 10:44:15 GMT -5
Y'know, when we step away from the world of facts into the paranormal back-up becomes less important because our personal experiences come into play. If we have no personal experiences to draw from, then, of course we are going to fall back on skepticism. Otherwise, it all becomes subjective and relies on the same ol' belief/faith as religion.
I have extremely vivid dreams, I don't think they are prophetic but they certainly are suggestive and sometimes that comes out to the same thing.
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Post by fretslider on Mar 3, 2011 12:24:50 GMT -5
I asked you which confidence interval the paranormal researchers use, as you claim it is higher than usual. But I'm 95% confident (geddit!) that you just made that up. Why? What is your rationale for such an assertion? Here we go again... I was told "1 The statistical requirements that parapsychologists use to claim a statistically significant result are HIGHER than those needed for 'mainstream' scientific experiments." So I asked "1) So what confidence interval do they use?" She chose not to answer the question. Hence, "I asked you which confidence interval the paranormal researchers use, as you claim it is higher than usual. But I'm 95% confident (geddit!) that you just made that up." Are you going to tell us what this superior confidence level is?
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Post by sadie on Mar 3, 2011 12:29:27 GMT -5
I just don't understand could really measure this scientifically.....up to a point....yes.....and some specific things......but then it has to go off into some areas that you can't.
Always wondered about that saying where they say if you hit the ground in your dream....you die in real life.....how the heck would they know?
I have had dreams of flies barking.....all they would tell me is to stop taking the drugs......(just btw....I wasn't taking any)
Maybe some of the people are just experiencing a strong sense of deja' vu and think it may have been a dream.....or had the similarities of a dream........
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 17:12:34 GMT -5
In the first place, the question is impossible to answer.
Let us assume for the sake of argument that SOME dreams DO successfully refer to future events.
What does that actually mean?
Does it mean that the future is predetermined and that we are powerless to change it?
Does it mean that time is an illusion?
Does it mean that our concepts of time are inadequate?
Now let us ask ourselves the question.
If time is a linear process in which past progresses steadily through present into future then any kind of precognitive experience, dream or otherwise, clearly is impossibe.
Unfortunately there is sufficient evidence to suggest that SOMETIMES it IS possible to predict the future with a certain amount of success, even based on the results of dreams.
My own opinion is that our present notions of time are inadequate to explain away the phenomena although of course true believers will cling to the most tenuous straws just as dogmatic deniers will also deny the most overwhelming evidence.
When one considers the weird and wonderful world of science, particularly when it comes to quantum physics, the notions of telepathy, psychokinesis, clairvoyance and precognition do not IMHO appear remotely as bizarre as the notions of tachyons, quarks, strangeness and other postulates of quantum physics.
None of this means either that the paranormal, like orthodox science, does not have more than its fair share of dishonest, gullible, stupid and naive people.
What it does mean is that claims for the paranormal need to be regarded with an open mind rather than either simple acceptance or dogmatic denial.
I am currently working on a series of articles about the dubious side of science which I shall begin posting in the next few days.
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Post by talisman on Mar 4, 2011 17:38:04 GMT -5
I am currently working on a series of articles about the dubious side of science which I shall begin posting in the next few days. I'm sure we're all agog. With sources, of course. (Naturally it goes without saying that you'll be mentioning the non-dubious side of science as well.)
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