Moral Issues in Western Civilation

[beth]

How are Moral Issues different from political, legal or general societal issues?



Demonstrators protest Monday, Sept. 12, 2016, in Raleigh, N.C., during a Moral Monday protest. A movement that began more than three years ago about conservative policies in North Carolina has grown into an event that will be held in 30 states and Washington, D.C., to promote what supporters call a "moral public policy framework." The Rev. William Barber will lead the protest on Monday at the North Carolina Capitol in Raleigh.
Photo by Martha Waggonerr

[beth]

Where we stand (sort of) in the U. S.

These are issues the religious in America believe we face. Are these Universal? How does it compare with moral issues in the U.K.?


1. Sanctity of Life: Preserving sanctity of life by resisting the encroachment of abortion, euthanasia, cloning, and embryonic stem cell research.

2. Religious Liberty: Defending the persecuted Church and others of faith around the world, and defending freedom of religion here at home.

3. Human Rights: Protecting human rights, whether it's stopping sex-trafficking, slavery in Sudan, or the spread of AIDS.

4. Marriage: Protecting by law the traditional heterosexual definition of the family.

5. Terrorism: Strengthening America in the War on Terrorism and in the clash of civilizations against radical Islam.

6. Judiciary Roles: Restoring the constitutional role of the Supreme Court and restricting judicial activism.

7. Faith-based solutions: Advocating faith-based solutions to societal problems.

8. Marginalized Citizens: Caring for the poor and restoring prisoners. Preserving the financial stability of health care for the elderly and disabled.

9. Education: Improving education and promoting choices within the educational system.

10. Media: Challenging the negative impact of the mass media on culture -- including speaking out against pornography, sexual exploitation, and violence.

www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/articles/entry/12/9531

[josephdphillips]

Sept 13, 2016 12:43:58 GMT -5 beth said:

How are Moral Issues different from political, legal or general societal issues?

The cost of paper clips is a moral issue, if that's all you care about.

These protesters are just being silly, as usual.

[beth]

It's religious issues to them apparently.

Does one have to be religious to care about moral issues?


What about the 10 listed above? Which do you believe are the most and least important.



Abstract: A working definition of an issue of moral concern is presented as any issue with the potential to help or harm anyone, including oneself. I. Hypothesis 1: Moral issues are those which involve a difference of belief and not a matter of preference. A.Apr 15, 2016

philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/issue.html


Is there any possibility of looking at them objectively?

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2016 12:55:10 GMT -5 beth said:

It's religious issues to them apparently.

Does one have to be religious to care about moral issues?


What about the 10 listed above? Which do you believe are the most and least important.



Abstract: A working definition of an issue of moral concern is presented as any issue with the potential to help or harm anyone, including oneself. I. Hypothesis 1: Moral issues are those which involve a difference of belief and not a matter of preference. A.Apr 15, 2016

philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/issue.html


Is there any possibility of looking at them objectively?

Well, of course, it is an elementary point of logic that no truth statement can entail a value judgement.

Moral issues cannot be 'true' or 'false' in the same way that factual or logical ones can.

They can of course be better or worse but there are numerous issues on which some people consider certain behaviour immoral while others do not.

Same-sex relationships, abortion, the death penalty, torture and war are obvious examples.

For what it is worth there is the further question whether or not an action that is considered 'immoral' should also be 'illegal.' Until around the eighteenth century that was pretty universally accepted as being the norm; since then, there is a growing disconnect between legal and moral.

One of the most fundamental problems in the world is the insistence of particular groups that their own moral positions should be enforced upon those who disagree with them.

[beth]

So much depends on who's doing the defining. I usually think of "morals" as having religious connotations and ethics as civil (government, business, military, etc.). What's more, I believe we have our own codes of morals and ethics that start during the formative years, then build and grow, life long.

Western cultures have many of these in common and that's what I'm really looking to address (not a pull and tug between eastern and western).

[josephdphillips]

Sept 13, 2016 12:55:10 GMT -5 beth said:

Does one have to be religious to care about moral issues?

No. Questions of right and wrong are cultural, not religious.

Sept 13, 2016 12:55:10 GMT -5 beth said:

What about the 10 listed above? Which do you believe are the most and least important? 1. Sanctity of Life: Preserving sanctity of life by resisting the encroachment of abortion, euthanasia, cloning, and embryonic stem cell research. 2. Religious Liberty: Defending the persecuted Church and others of faith around the world, and defending freedom of religion here at home. 3. Human Rights: Protecting human rights, whether it's stopping sex-trafficking, slavery in Sudan, or the spread of AIDS. 4. Marriage: Protecting by law the traditional heterosexual definition of the family. 5. Terrorism: Strengthening America in the War on Terrorism and in the clash of civilizations against radical Islam. 6. Judiciary Roles: Restoring the constitutional role of the Supreme Court and restricting judicial activism. 7. Faith-based solutions: Advocating faith-based solutions to societal problems. 8. Marginalized Citizens: Caring for the poor and restoring prisoners. Preserving the financial stability of health care for the elderly and disabled. 9. Education: Improving education and promoting choices within the educational system. 10. Media: Challenging the negative impact of the mass media on culture -- including speaking out against pornography, sexual exploitation, and violence.

Only #5.

[beth]

Not #6 ?

[josephdphillips]

Restoring the constitutional role of the Supreme Court and restricting judicial activism is not nearly as important as the war with the muzzies.

[mouse]

Sept 13, 2016 12:55:10 GMT -5 beth said:

It's religious issues to them apparently.

Does one have to be religious to care about moral issues?


What about the 10 listed above? Which do you believe are the most and least important.



Abstract: A working definition of an issue of moral concern is presented as any issue with the potential to help or harm anyone, including oneself. I. Hypothesis 1: Moral issues are those which involve a difference of belief and not a matter of preference. A.Apr 15, 2016

philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/issue.html


Is there any possibility of looking at them objectively?

no you don't have to be religious to have morals or to care about moral issues
morals existed long before the religions of today
and yes all the issues mentioned can be looked at objecivly...
[one of the greatest problems to day the word morals is directly associated with sex]

""". Sanctity of Life: Preserving sanctity of life by resisting the encroachment of abortion, euthanasia, cloning, and embryonic stem cell research"""we [UK]don't see much hoo ha about those issues and seem in general to have an opposing stance on those issues in general being pro those things mentioned

7.""" Faith-based solutions: Advocating faith-based solutions to societal problems"""we don't do faith based solutions
we have some faith based schools..apart from the muslims its largely rather irelevent

the rest we don't particularily see as religious issues....they are issues which any civilised people should be concerned with...
actually the issues mentioned are issues of concern regardless of any faith/beliefe system ..we don't do religion on societal issues..society/the common good is bigger than individual religions

[beth]

No, of course moral issues are not the exclusive province of Christianity .. or even alternative religions ("an it harm none ... ). In this country it often seems so because the churches wield them like samurai swords (virtues). Everybody runs into moral choices, often. But, everybody does not live by the same moral code.

Personally, I believe Sanctity of Life is pretty important ... lots of different positions. things to think about, things to consider.

"Faith Based" comes directly from organized religion and covers those who would prefer a Theocracy to a Democracy/Republic.

[ladylinda]

Sanctity of life is a particular problem if you're both pro-death penalty and anti-abortion.

I know and respect people who are consistently anti or pro on both (pro-cp and pro-choice are I believed nicknamed 'Double Deathers') but I find it hard to justify murdering an unborn infant while I find it much easier to justify executing a murderer.

[beth]

Sept 18, 2016 1:04:38 GMT -5 beth said:

I started to post this separately but have decided to make it part of this thread for reasons I think are fairly obvious.

First child dies by euthanasia in Belgium

A terminally ill minor has become the first child to be euthanized in Belgium since age restrictions were lifted in the country two years ago, according to several sources.

A Belgian lawmaker told CNN affiliate VTM that the physician-assisted suicide happened within the past week.

The child, who was suffering from an incurable disease, had asked for euthanasia, Sen. Jean-Jacques De Gucht told VTM. The identity of the child and age are unknown.

"I think it's very important that we, as a society, have given the opportunity to those people to decide for themselves in what manner they cope with that situation," said Gucht, a supporter of euthanasia legislation.

Wim Distelmans, who chairs Belgium's Federal Control and Evaluation Committee on Euthanasia, told state broadcaster RTBF that fortunately few children had demanded mercy killing but "that does not mean we should deny them the right to a dignified death."

Belgium legalized euthanasia in 2002 for those in "constant and unbearable physical or mental suffering that cannot be alleviated." Minors were included in the original proposals but removed from the final legislation in the face of political opposition.

In 2014, the bill extended the "right to die" to those under the age of 18. But there were additional strict conditions, including that the child was judged to be able to understand what euthanasia means.

Consent of parents or guardians must also be given.

"This can only be in cases of serious and incurable diseases, which is the same thing for adults ... but for minors an additional condition is that the death must be expected in the near future," Jacqueline Herremans told RTBF. Herremans is the president of Belgium's Association for the Right to Die with Dignity and also a member of the federal committee on euthanasia.

Belgium is the only country that allows euthanasia for children of any age.

The Netherlands also allows mercy killings for children, but only for those 12 and over. It became the first country to legalize euthanasia in April 2002.

Physician-assisted suicide is legal in five US states. Individuals have the option under state law in Oregon, Vermont, Washington and California. In Montana, it is an option given to individuals via court decision. They must have a terminal illness as well as a prognosis of six months or less to live. Physicians cannot be prosecuted for prescribing medications to hasten death.

www.cnn.com/2016/09/17/health/belgium-minor-euthanasia/index.html

[mouse]

euthanasia and mercy killings are a tricky subject at any age..with children it becomes much more emotive
the most important issue around both euthanasia and mercy killings are the safe guards to stop exploitation... not being soley based entirely on the individuals needs and requirements
I have no problem with either euthanasia or mercy killings providing ALL safeguards are in place and abuse free
the appalling misery of some lives is beyond cruel to prolong and you wouldn't be allowed to put an animal through such existences..so why let a human being suffer torture and agonies to such an extent..why and for what ?
when a life has reached the point of being a living hell or is only a hairs breath of being a living hell..it is more merciful to end that life
we have laws against torturing and yet we allow to happen day after day

[Jessiealan]

Sept 18, 2016 1:06:13 GMT -5 beth said:

Sept 18, 2016 1:04:38 GMT -5 beth said:

I started to post this separately but have decided to make it part of this thread for reasons I think are fairly obvious.

First child dies by euthanasia in Belgium

A terminally ill minor has become the first child to be euthanized in Belgium since age restrictions were lifted in the country two years ago, according to several sources.

A Belgian lawmaker told CNN affiliate VTM that the physician-assisted suicide happened within the past week.

The child, who was suffering from an incurable disease, had asked for euthanasia, Sen. Jean-Jacques De Gucht told VTM. The identity of the child and age are unknown.

"I think it's very important that we, as a society, have given the opportunity to those people to decide for themselves in what manner they cope with that situation," said Gucht, a supporter of euthanasia legislation.

Wim Distelmans, who chairs Belgium's Federal Control and Evaluation Committee on Euthanasia, told state broadcaster RTBF that fortunately few children had demanded mercy killing but "that does not mean we should deny them the right to a dignified death."

Belgium legalized euthanasia in 2002 for those in "constant and unbearable physical or mental suffering that cannot be alleviated." Minors were included in the original proposals but removed from the final legislation in the face of political opposition.

In 2014, the bill extended the "right to die" to those under the age of 18. But there were additional strict conditions, including that the child was judged to be able to understand what euthanasia means.

Consent of parents or guardians must also be given.

"This can only be in cases of serious and incurable diseases, which is the same thing for adults ... but for minors an additional condition is that the death must be expected in the near future," Jacqueline Herremans told RTBF. Herremans is the president of Belgium's Association for the Right to Die with Dignity and also a member of the federal committee on euthanasia.

Belgium is the only country that allows euthanasia for children of any age.

The Netherlands also allows mercy killings for children, but only for those 12 and over. It became the first country to legalize euthanasia in April 2002.

Physician-assisted suicide is legal in five US states. Individuals have the option under state law in Oregon, Vermont, Washington and California. In Montana, it is an option given to individuals via court decision. They must have a terminal illness as well as a prognosis of six months or less to live. Physicians cannot be prosecuted for prescribing medications to hasten death.

www.cnn.com/2016/09/17/health/belgium-minor-euthanasia/index.html

In order to consider this and discuss it, I would need to know; what is the status of sedation and pain easing medications? Would i not be better to administer something of the sort and allow the patients to live their lives out fully?

I have a very uncomfortable impression it would be possible for caregivers and those in authority to "pull the plug" to save on medical costs and personal inconvenience. While I realize that would not usually be the case, any at all would be too much.