josephdphillips
Global Facilitator
January 2015 Member of the Month
Posts: 3,494
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Post by josephdphillips on Mar 27, 2015 8:46:49 GMT -5
So then, what happens if some ground controller goes rogue? Or the data link gets hacked? Or various other potentially lethal scenarios? Good questions, but I would trust the security of a data link, and the collective sanity of a control tower, more than I could ever trust a pilot. One doesn't have to be mentally ill, or have some kind of specific history, to commit suicide. The decision can take place in the blink of an eye, for any one of a million reasons. This argument is also going on regarding shipping and having unmanned ships. Can't see that happening any time soon either. Because they can't be used as missiles. Yet. Aviation and shipping have a great commonality - almost all of what goes on is routine and repetitive. However, those in charge on board REALLY earn their pay when things go wrong Explain that to Germansong's stockholders. Here's another thought - even with the tragic losses of life due to the likes of murdering Islamic bampots or, as appears to be the case here, when somebody has a mental breakdown, or, as does seem likely with MH370, a pilot deliberately commits suicide, aviation is STILL very safe. Indeed, the most dangerous part of your journey is the drive to/from the airport. Fact. Quite true. If only we were governed by the rational, by people who valued facts.
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Post by markindurham on Mar 27, 2015 9:21:32 GMT -5
So then, what happens if some ground controller goes rogue? Or the data link gets hacked? Or various other potentially lethal scenarios? Good questions, but I would trust the security of a data link, and the collective sanity of a control tower, more than I could ever trust a pilot. One doesn't have to be mentally ill, or have some kind of specific history, to commit suicide. The decision can take place in the blink of an eye, for any one of a million reasons. This argument is also going on regarding shipping and having unmanned ships. Can't see that happening any time soon either. Because they can't be used as missiles. Yet. Aviation and shipping have a great commonality - almost all of what goes on is routine and repetitive. However, those in charge on board REALLY earn their pay when things go wrong Explain that to Germansong's stockholders. Here's another thought - even with the tragic losses of life due to the likes of murdering Islamic bampots or, as appears to be the case here, when somebody has a mental breakdown, or, as does seem likely with MH370, a pilot deliberately commits suicide, aviation is STILL very safe. Indeed, the most dangerous part of your journey is the drive to/from the airport. Fact. Quite true. If only we were governed by the rational, by people who valued facts. OK, in that PPruNe link, somebody who actually designs and flies UAVs (drones) actually states that as things stand, the day remotely piloted passenger aircraft are introduced is the day he will stop flying. One reason is that UAVs crash far too often. Also, you are operating via a data link. What happens if the signal is broken? In addition, can you imagine how much bandwidth you would require in order to operate the number of aircraft in the present fleet? There aren't enough satellites available to reliably keep links open - and there is only finite bandwidth in any case. Another point - imagine somebody with a jamming device in the vicinity of, say, JFK, LHR, LAX... Shipping IS regarded as potentially able to be used as a weapon. Hell, I have had enough experience of the USCG to know that they regard all shipping as such these days. I won't go into too much detail, but, as an example, even a small gas tanker of some 8000 cubic metres cargo capacity has the potentially destructive force of some 25 A-bombs of the size of 'Little Boy'... Germanwings have a bigger issue now, by the way - the young man who did what he did should not have even been on the flight deck yesterday. How did he slip through the net, as it were? See the link I put up earlier. Regarding the MH issues - the US is even more unforgiving than European airlines if a pilot admits to having MH problems. Ergo, you're more likely to have a similar thing happen in US airspace in the future than a repeat in Europe...
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josephdphillips
Global Facilitator
January 2015 Member of the Month
Posts: 3,494
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Post by josephdphillips on Mar 27, 2015 11:04:32 GMT -5
OK, in that PPruNe link, somebody who actually designs and flies UAVs (drones) actually states that as things stand, the day remotely piloted passenger aircraft are introduced is the day he will stop flying. One reason is that UAVs crash far too often. Also, you are operating via a data link. What happens if the signal is broken? In addition, can you imagine how much bandwidth you would require in order to operate the number of aircraft in the present fleet? There aren't enough satellites available to reliably keep links open - and there is only finite bandwidth in any case. Another point - imagine somebody with a jamming device in the vicinity of, say, JFK, LHR, LAX... Shipping IS regarded as potentially able to be used as a weapon. Hell, I have had enough experience of the USCG to know that they regard all shipping as such these days. I won't go into too much detail, but, as an example, even a small gas tanker of some 8000 cubic metres cargo capacity has the potentially destructive force of some 25 A-bombs of the size of 'Little Boy'... Germanwings have a bigger issue now, by the way - the young man who did what he did should not have even been on the flight deck yesterday. How did he slip through the net, as it were? See the link I put up earlier. Regarding the MH issues - the US is even more unforgiving than European airlines if a pilot admits to having MH problems. Ergo, you're more likely to have a similar thing happen in US airspace in the future than a repeat in Europe... A cogent and compelling argument, Mark. Germanwings will likely be sued, and it ought to defend itself and refuse to settle. There's simply no way to know if someone is going to commit suicide. Like I said, you don't have to be mentally ill to want to kill yourself. It's a perfectly normal thing to do, given the right circumstances. I'm not condoning suicide. It's contemptible in all circumstances, but I wouldn't bet the lives of a jetliner's passengers that I can predict which pilot will or won't commit suicide.
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Post by annaj26 on Mar 27, 2015 11:33:18 GMT -5
I don't see how anybody can be sure right now but this might help. It's the latest news they are letting out at this time. Germanwings co-pilot had medical note for day of crash, hid illness, officials say • 11:49 a.m.: Germanwings says it didn't receive a sick note for the day of the flight. • 10:57 a.m.: A letter found in a waste bin in Andreas Lubitz's apartment indicated he "was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work," Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said. • 9:23 a.m.: Lufthansa, together with other German airlines, has announced the immediate introduction of new rules for the cockpit. It will now be a requirement for there to be two authorized people in the cockpit at all times. • 8:01 a.m.: The medical leave notes issued by a doctor for Lubitz included the day of the crash, the Dusseldorf public prosecutor's office said. • 8:01 a.m.: The prosecutor's office did not say if the medical leave note related to a physical or a mental health issue but said Lubitz appeared to have been under treatment by a doctor for some time. • 8:01 a.m.: The fact that Lubitz appears to have ripped up recent medical leave notes "leads to the preliminary conclusion that the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer and his professional environment." Full story: The Germanwings co-pilot accused of intentionally setting a plane on a fatal descent in the French Alps had an illness that he kept secret from his employer, German prosecutors said Friday. A statement from the Dusseldorf public prosecutor's office did not say what the illness was, nor whether it was a physical or mental health issue. But documents found in a search of Andreas Lubitz's home and that of his parents "indicate an existing illness as well as adequate medical treatment thereof," the prosecutor's office said. the rest www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 28, 2015 16:44:29 GMT -5
There's an obvious solution to this problem, to keep it from happening again. No lock on the cabin door? No Co-pilot? Automatic pilot? I do not believe those are correct and don't know what you're thinking. huh uh. don't allow muzzies to fly airplanes
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 28, 2015 16:45:54 GMT -5
Notwithstanding the sarcasm, I will answer. The solution will be to replace human pilots with robotic ones. Or at the very least let air controllers manipulate an airplane's flight from the ground. Or some combination of the two. Either way, human pilots have got to go. naw. we don't need to eliminate REAL humans as pilots
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Jessiealan
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Member of the Month, October 2013
Posts: 8,726
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Post by Jessiealan on Mar 29, 2015 18:06:07 GMT -5
No lock on the cabin door? No Co-pilot? Automatic pilot? I do not believe those are correct and don't know what you're thinking. huh uh. don't allow muzzies to fly airplanes But all of them are not militant, Jumbo. Do you think all of them have the same disregard for human life? Is this a part of their religion and does it include their own lives? I know a few Arabs. One family owns a shop in town and another man is engaged to the daughter of one of my friends. They do not see different from Americans. Are you judging everyone by a few?
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Post by mouse on Mar 30, 2015 3:40:39 GMT -5
I like what you wrote Jessie....and of course not all Arabs are followers of islam but there is a big question that has to be thought about we are constantly told its only a few...fair enough...but FEW is an abstract number...a few of two billion can be millions... also constantly muslims who look fine on the surface turn out to have dodgy conextions and affiliations...from MPs to those in the lords..various committies and organisations..every level of government etc etc ...our society and its organisations is riddled with people..who look fine..and yet on a deeper look its like looking at a spiders web of interconnections...not good at all so now I do not trust any of them regardless of nationality or race....for they have proved them selves unworthy of trust....as fellow country men I don't trust them an inch
but your first question """"But all of them are not militant, Jumbo. Do you think all of them have the same disregard for human life? Is this a part of their religion and does it include their own lives? """""
I think they are all part and parcel of an alien mindset...they are taught from the cradle...that the unbeliever is not equal to the muslim...that it is their duty to try to install a world wide umah for the sake of allah... it is their duty to do what ever they can to promote islam.... it is their duty to pay lip service to the unbeliever for the sake of allah we only have to look at Warsi here in the UK...promoted beyond her capabilities...given a serat in the lords and so full of weazle words its embarrassing...on the face of it a nice western muslims all smiles and equality....and the otherside of her was mixing with very dubious company..hardliners etc etc these people will tell you what they think you want to hear....but a closer look and it becomes clear they have other affiliations...
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 30, 2015 5:59:52 GMT -5
huh uh. don't allow muzzies to fly airplanes But all of them are not militant, Jumbo. Do you think all of them have the same disregard for human life? Is this a part of their religion and does it include their own lives? I know a few Arabs. One family owns a shop in town and another man is engaged to the daughter of one of my friends. They do not see different from Americans. Are you judging everyone by a few? no. i judge them by their book. the FACT is that it is ONLY the terrorists who are true muslims
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Post by iamjumbo on Mar 30, 2015 6:04:20 GMT -5
I like what you wrote Jessie....and of course not all Arabs are followers of islam but there is a big question that has to be thought about we are constantly told its only a few...fair enough...but FEW is an abstract number...a few of two billion can be millions... also constantly muslims who look fine on the surface turn out to have dodgy conextions and affiliations...from MPs to those in the lords..various committies and organisations..every level of government etc etc ...our society and its organisations is riddled with people..who look fine..and yet on a deeper look its like looking at a spiders web of interconnections...not good at all so now I do not trust any of them regardless of nationality or race....for they have proved them selves unworthy of trust....as fellow country men I don't trust them an inch but your first question """"But all of them are not militant, Jumbo. Do you think all of them have the same disregard for human life? Is this a part of their religion and does it include their own lives? """"" I think they are all part and parcel of an alien mindset...they are taught from the cradle...that the unbeliever is not equal to the muslim...that it is their duty to try to install a world wide umah for the sake of allah... it is their duty to do what ever they can to promote islam.... it is their duty to pay lip service to the unbeliever for the sake of allah we only have to look at Warsi here in the UK...promoted beyond her capabilities...given a serat in the lords and so full of weazle words its embarrassing...on the face of it a nice western muslims all smiles and equality....and the otherside of her was mixing with very dubious company..hardliners etc etc these people will tell you what they think you want to hear....but a closer look and it becomes clear they have other affiliations... it was NOT militants who were looting and burning europe when the danish cartoons were published. it was NOT militants who were rioting in afghanistan because we burned some old qu'rans. it is NOT militants who rape and turn out young girls all over britain. it is NOT militants who want to establish muslim only enclaves all over europe. it is NOT militants who murder their daughters, here in the u.s., because the daughters choose to wear clothes. and on, and on, and on
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Post by mouse on Mar 30, 2015 6:12:02 GMT -5
exactly Jumbo........the book tells them what to do...and the hadiths etc fill in the rest..as for the life of the prophet...all in all theres not a peck to choose between them the only way to tell the good from the bad will happen when and only when muslims can leave this cult without fearing a death sentence...only then will it become apparent who is and who isn't a follower
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