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FEAR
Jul 25, 2014 18:17:04 GMT -5
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Post by men an tol on Jul 25, 2014 18:17:04 GMT -5
Freedom from Fear
Is it possible for the mind to empty itself totally of fear? Fear of any kind breeds illusion; it makes the mind dull, shallow. Where there is fear there is obviously no freedom, and without freedom there is no love at all. And most of us have some form of fear; fear of darkness, fear of public opinion, fear of snakes, fear of physical pain, fear of old age, fear of death. We have literally dozens of fears. And is it possible to be completely free of fear?We can see what fear does to each one of us. It makes one tell lies; it corrupts one in various ways; it makes the mind empty, shallow. There are dark corners in the mind which can never be investigated and exposed as long as one is afraid. Physical self-protection, the instinctive urge to keep away from the venomous snake, to draw back from the precipice, to avoid falling under the tramcar, and so on, is sane, normal, healthy. But I am asking about the psychological self-protectiveness which makes one afraid of disease, of death, of an enemy. When we seek fulfillment in any form, whether through painting, through music, through relationship, or what you will, there is always fear. So, what is important is to be aware of this whole process of oneself, to observe, to learn about it, and not ask how to get rid of fear. When you merely want to get rid of fear, you will find ways and means of escaping from it, and so there can never be freedom from fear. - Krishnamurti, The Book of Life
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -5
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Post by fretslider on Jul 26, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -5
Freedom from Fear Is it possible for the mind to empty itself totally of fear? Fear of any kind breeds illusion; it makes the mind dull, shallow. Where there is fear there is obviously no freedom, and without freedom there is no love at all. And most of us have some form of fear; fear of darkness, fear of public opinion, fear of snakes, fear of physical pain, fear of old age, fear of death. We have literally dozens of fears. And is it possible to be completely free of fear?We can see what fear does to each one of us. It makes one tell lies; it corrupts one in various ways; it makes the mind empty, shallow. There are dark corners in the mind which can never be investigated and exposed as long as one is afraid. Physical self-protection, the instinctive urge to keep away from the venomous snake, to draw back from the precipice, to avoid falling under the tramcar, and so on, is sane, normal, healthy. But I am asking about the psychological self-protectiveness which makes one afraid of disease, of death, of an enemy. When we seek fulfillment in any form, whether through painting, through music, through relationship, or what you will, there is always fear. So, what is important is to be aware of this whole process of oneself, to observe, to learn about it, and not ask how to get rid of fear. When you merely want to get rid of fear, you will find ways and means of escaping from it, and so there can never be freedom from fear. - Krishnamurti, The Book of Life Is it possible for the mind to empty itself totally of fear?No self-respecting government would allow such a situation. They will continue to tell you that there are things you should fear AND only they can keep you safe from them.
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Post by men an tol on Jul 26, 2014 6:57:59 GMT -5
Ah yes, you are right Fret!
That is why an unrestrained government, any government, is our foremost danger.
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 7:39:58 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jul 26, 2014 7:39:58 GMT -5
I don't think it has anything to do with "unrestrained". Any government or authoritative institution will do the same.
I'm not sure a little fear is a bad thing. It's surely a matter of degree, in general.
If there are people determined to steal and kill and behave in less than civil manner, fear can be a deterrent.
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 9:51:46 GMT -5
Post by men an tol on Jul 26, 2014 9:51:46 GMT -5
In the context of government, or any institution, it is a matter of how much it (they) control your life. Or, in the minds of some, how much we allow that government generated fear to impact our lives. Government enacts that control though power, an unrestrained government acts through unrestrained power. History demonstrates many such governments operating at some degree of unrestrained power. Here in the United States the Constitution represents a controlled focus imposed on that government. To the degree that such focus is on people and institutions who initiate harm to others that government is acting within those Constitutional constrains. When that government uses that power in other areas it is acting in an unrestrained manner and the danger to the individual increases.
However, the comment by Krishnamurti was directed at the individual and the ever presence of internalized fear, “ . . . So, what is important is to be aware of this whole process of oneself, to observe, to learn about it, and not ask how to get rid of fear. . . “
In this context fear is a part of us and we, as individuals, can cause it and just as significantly create how it affects us, as individuals. Are we to strive to remove fear from our lives or are we to learn how to use fear as an internal tool?
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 11:36:39 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jul 26, 2014 11:36:39 GMT -5
In the context of government, or any institution, it is a matter of how much it (they) control your life. Or, in the minds of some, how much we allow that government generated fear to impact our lives. Government enacts that control though power, an unrestrained government acts through unrestrained power. History demonstrates many such governments operating at some degree of unrestrained power. Here in the United States the Constitution represents a controlled focus imposed on that government. To the degree that such focus is on people and institutions who initiate harm to others that government is acting within those Constitutional constrains. When that government uses that power in other areas it is acting in an unrestrained manner and the danger to the individual increases. However, the comment by Krishnamurti was directed at the individual and the ever presence of internalized fear, “ . . . So, what is important is to be aware of this whole process of oneself, to observe, to learn about it, and not ask how to get rid of fear. . . “ In this context fear is a part of us and we, as individuals, can cause it and just as significantly create how it affects us, as individuals. Are we to strive to remove fear from our lives or are we to learn how to use fear as an internal tool? It's hard to pin down a particular subject to discuss in connection with Fear because it's such a large part of the human condition ... kind of like peace or any of the virtues. In connection with government, I guess the Cheney/Rumsfeld machine is the one that connects immediately in my memory. 9/11 did enough to instill fear and anger but the rest of the decade the emotions and concerns of the American people were jerked around with alerts and warnings. Not sensible cautions and helpful suggestions, but hype that created an incredible atmosphere of fearfulness. From a personal POV, I have to wonder if my uncle would still be alive had he been a little more fearful of opening the door to strangers in the middle of the night. i don't think anyone can live happily in constant fear, but there's something to be said for a moderate amount of caution.
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Jessiealan
xr
Member of the Month, October 2013
Posts: 8,726
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 13:18:25 GMT -5
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Post by Jessiealan on Jul 26, 2014 13:18:25 GMT -5
Freedom from Fear Is it possible for the mind to empty itself totally of fear? Fear of any kind breeds illusion; it makes the mind dull, shallow. Where there is fear there is obviously no freedom, and without freedom there is no love at all. And most of us have some form of fear; fear of darkness, fear of public opinion, fear of snakes, fear of physical pain, fear of old age, fear of death. We have literally dozens of fears. And is it possible to be completely free of fear?We can see what fear does to each one of us. It makes one tell lies; it corrupts one in various ways; it makes the mind empty, shallow. There are dark corners in the mind which can never be investigated and exposed as long as one is afraid. Physical self-protection, the instinctive urge to keep away from the venomous snake, to draw back from the precipice, to avoid falling under the tramcar, and so on, is sane, normal, healthy. But I am asking about the psychological self-protectiveness which makes one afraid of disease, of death, of an enemy. When we seek fulfillment in any form, whether through painting, through music, through relationship, or what you will, there is always fear. So, what is important is to be aware of this whole process of oneself, to observe, to learn about it, and not ask how to get rid of fear. When you merely want to get rid of fear, you will find ways and means of escaping from it, and so there can never be freedom from fear. - Krishnamurti, The Book of Life This is a very inspiring quote. Fear must be a terrible thing to live with. My first thought is of Anne Frank and the fear the Jews lived with prior to and during WWII. Now, there is a movement afoot to set the people in this country against the Honduras refugees through fear mongering. I hope these people who need the security of our great nation will not have to live here in fear for their lives and piece of mind.
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 15:06:24 GMT -5
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Post by men an tol on Jul 26, 2014 15:06:24 GMT -5
There has always been movements to gain power and often this is accomplished through instilling fear is some targeted part of the populace and it comes from all points on the political spectrum. To combat such 'instilled' fear one must become as knowledgeable as possible. Learning is the defense against such fear sources.
No political source pushing some type of fear it you can succeed if you work to be aware, to be learned, on the subject (whatever that is). Knowledge is the ultimate power.
It is the other type of fear that can be so debilitating. The type of fear that we cause ourselves. Think of the first time you ever verbally addressed some group. You prepared and prepared but when the walk was made to the podium, your mouth got dry, you might have stammered, the audience became a blur, sweating seemed to take over, any number of things might make this a miserable experience. Or, that fear could be used (inside of yourself) to sharpen the experience into something that feeds off the audience. What about the first time you met the parents of your significant other. Or the first time you drove a car solo. Or when you witnessed in front of the congregation.
These types of fears are inside of you and they can either take control of you or you can use them to strengthen your internal beliefs. Krishnamurti suggests that we can never be free of these types of fears, but allowing them to grow and fester keeps us from the openness (within our own being) to work with others and come to understand them and that with that fear controlling us we can never love others.
Keep in mind, that while these politically generated fears are real they originate from outside of us and therefore cannot control us if we work to learn and to control ourselves. Think of them as the weak fears, it is those internal ones which drive into taking the wrong fork in the road.
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 18:03:00 GMT -5
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Post by beth on Jul 26, 2014 18:03:00 GMT -5
No political source pushing some type of fear it you can succeed if you work to be aware, to be learned, on the subject (whatever that is). Knowledge is the ultimate power.
First has to come information .. then, once absorbed, it becomes knowledge. We currently have wonderful opportunities to be informed. But the wild frontier of user controlled parts of the internet is shrinking under the efforts to push pay-for-priority and allocate power and control over content.
Watch what's happening with regulations. Every part of the world with something to gain by propaganda plays around with regulations. Keep an eye on the FCC, here.
In many cases, the whole idea is to alleviate our fears, so there again, fear may not be so terrible if it leads to better understanding of the truth.
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 18:35:04 GMT -5
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Post by men an tol on Jul 26, 2014 18:35:04 GMT -5
Since there has been some interest in this subject of fear, from the same source here is another set of thoughts on the subject:
Dealing with Fear
One is afraid of public opinion, afraid of not achieving, not fulfilling, afraid of not having the opportunity; and through it all there is this extraordinary sense of guilt;one has done a thing that one should not have done; the sense of guilt in the very act of doing; one is healthy and others are poor and unhealthy; one has food and others have no food. The more the mind is inquiring, penetrating, asking, the greater the sense of guilt, anxiety. Fear is the urge that seeks a Master, a guru; fear is this coating of respectability, which every one loves so dearly; to be respectable. Do you determine to be courageous to face events in life, or merely rationalize fear away, or find explanations that will give satisfaction to the mind that is caught in fear? How do you deal with it? Turn on the radio, read a book, go to a temple, cling to some form of dogma, belief? Fear is the destructive energy in man. It withers the mind, it distorts thought, it leads to all kinds of extraordinarily clever and subtle theories, absurd superstitions, dogmas, and beliefs. If you see that fear is destructive, then how do you proceed to wipe the mind clean? You say that by probing into the cause of fear you would be free of fear. Is that so? Trying to uncover the cause and knowing the cause of fear does not eliminate fear. - Krishnamurti, J. Krishnamurti, The Book of Life
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 18:56:22 GMT -5
Post by men an tol on Jul 26, 2014 18:56:22 GMT -5
Beth, I believe that the natural tendency of government is to grow and to increase its control. It really doesn't matter what type of government. It is up to people to control their government.
Much of what is talked about in forums such as this one about government, has all been discussed before. One of the better sources is “Federalist Papers” and the “Anti-Federalist Papers”. Another top source is the writings of Professor J. Rufus Fears. Although he died in 2012, his writings and books are still available.
For many of us it is an eye opener when we come to understand that many of the subjects and issues which we find important today have been addressed by others and sometimes in more than one era. One thing that becomes apparent is that the importance of individual freedom has existed in only a very small sliver of the time of humans, and more over it is in danger of disappearing.
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 19:34:19 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jul 26, 2014 19:34:19 GMT -5
Beth, I believe that the natural tendency of government is to grow and to increase its control. It really doesn't matter what type of government. It is up to people to control their government. Much of what is talked about in forums such as this one about government, has all been discussed before. One of the better sources is “Federalist Papers” and the “Anti-Federalist Papers”. Another top source is the writings of Professor J. Rufus Fears. Although he died in 2012, his writings and books are still available. For many of us it is an eye opener when we come to understand that many of the subjects and issues which we find important today have been addressed by others and sometimes in more than one era. One thing that becomes apparent is that the importance of individual freedom has existed in only a very small sliver of the time of humans, and more over it is in danger of disappearing. I agree it's good to research and gather information ... all the while taking note of the sources, but discussion and the exchange of opinion and ideas takes it one step further ... all to the good. Discussion forums and the comments section after media articles gives everyone a chance to give and take. The research material is something we've always had with us ... the free and open discussion among people from all kinds of backgrounds and locations started with the newsgroups in the '90s and is now a 21st century way of life. Vital, imo. This is a favorite of mine for obvious, but also personal, reasons. I have a framed copy on the wall by my desk. Courage is the price that Life exacts for granting peace, The soul that knows it not, knows no release, From little things; Knows not the livid loneliness of fear Nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear The sound of wings.
― Amelia Earhart
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FEAR
Jul 26, 2014 23:48:45 GMT -5
Post by men an tol on Jul 26, 2014 23:48:45 GMT -5
Beth, that is a nice poem about something that the young should be taught, courage.
There was a time in schools (when most ended at the eighth grade), that poems took on a role of teaching that courage as well as other ethics of becoming an adult. Children were taught to memorize many poems, one that has always stayed with me is Excelsior, which was the teaching that duty often overrides all other considerations. In the schools with which I'm familiar teaching of these types of poems no longer happens.
Excelsior
The shades of night were falling fast, As through an Alpine village passed A youth, who bore, 'mid snow and ice, A banner with the strange device, Excelsior!
His brow was sad; his eye beneath, Flashed like a falchion from its sheath, And like a silver clarion rung The accents of that unknown tongue, Excelsior!
In happy homes he saw the light Of household fires gleam warm and bright; Above, the spectral glaciers shone, And from his lips escaped a groan, Excelsior!
"Try not the Pass!" the old man said: "Dark lowers the tempest overhead, The roaring torrent is deep and wide!" And loud that clarion voice replied, Excelsior!
"Oh stay," the maiden said, "and rest Thy weary head upon this breast!" A tear stood in his bright blue eye, But still he answered, with a sigh, Excelsior!
"Beware the pine-tree's withered branch! Beware the awful avalanche!" This was the peasant's last Good-night, A voice replied, far up the height, Excelsior!
At break of day, as heavenward The pious monks of Saint Bernard Uttered the oft-repeated prayer, A voice cried through the startled air, Excelsior!
A traveller, by the faithful hound, Half-buried in the snow was found, Still grasping in his hand of ice That banner with the strange device, Excelsior!
There in the twilight cold and gray, Lifeless, but beautiful, he lay, And from the sky, serene and far, A voice fell, like a falling star, Excelsior!
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FEAR
Jul 27, 2014 0:24:22 GMT -5
Post by beth on Jul 27, 2014 0:24:22 GMT -5
Beth, that is a nice poem about something that the young should be taught, courage. It wasn't a nice little literary poem. It was written by Amelia Earhart and is usually described as a quote. I'd say she knew a bit more than the average person about courage.
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FEAR
Jul 27, 2014 3:11:33 GMT -5
Post by mouse on Jul 27, 2014 3:11:33 GMT -5
there is nothing to FEAR but FEAR its self.......cannot remember who said it..but its a truism
when it comes to government inspired fear via such actions as 9/11 or 7/7 and all the attendant hypes and terrorist acts real and imagined ever since..i find most people I know are more angry than fearful.... angry that nothing is really being dealt with... angry at the seeming aceptence of impotence by governemt and agencies and angry that government has used the opportunities to curtail the freedoms of their own peoples instead of dealing with the real problems
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