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Post by mouse on May 28, 2010 8:43:18 GMT -5
i grew up apart from my siblings...i only saw them about twice a year untill i was around 10 and we were brought up in very different surroundings with differing thought processes around us
and yet
we all speak in the same manner
have the same attitudes
sound alike[especially on the phone when people used get confussed as to who is who]
have the same interests[though comming from different angles]
quick boiling tempers
laid back and easy going until we go woosh
we like the same foods
have the same mannerisms ..the same energies..........all very odd
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2010 12:22:49 GMT -5
I recently read a very brief mention of the notion that the genetic code can in fact 'hardwire' people to at least have a predisposition towards violence or at least a lack of empathy.
The genotype is apparently 'fixed' and is therefore determined and immutable but the phenotype is apparently more malleable and there are more possibilities for the nurture side of the argument to take hold.
I also read a brief comment in a rather dreadful book about the 'x' chromosome and how it had also been linked with a predisposition towards violent behaviour and lack of empathy.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2010 15:19:05 GMT -5
Yes, you can condition people to do things they would not normally do. On the contrary, people do lots of things they previously thought they would not do. It's abandonment of principle that's the norm, not adherence. Stanley Milgram set out to measure the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience. He was actually investigating whether American college students were any different than the Nazis. They weren't, but that shouldn't have surprised anyone. |
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Post by fretslider on May 28, 2010 18:19:22 GMT -5
Very few people have any principles to abandon. How people think determines their level of integrity. Ours is now a society in which people feel ashamed not for doing bad or doubtful things, but only for being caught doing them - UK MPs, for example.
The similarities don't end with blind obedience. The Volksgerichtshof, established in 1934, issued several thousand death sentences over the course of 10 years to 1944. I don't believe the Volksgerichtshof allowed for small invited audiences, though.
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Post by Wonder Woman on Jun 2, 2010 9:10:17 GMT -5
Hmm. 'Level of integrity' ~ how is that determined? Principles too, I think. And, if we, as a society, largely only feel remorse for being caught out, and not for the 'bad' (define bad) actions we've chosen, then, are we doomed to become more and more selfish? Or have we already got there?
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Post by fretslider on Jun 2, 2010 17:20:52 GMT -5
I think our politicians are nearly there, and they have set their example. Everybody's bent; one way or another.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2010 11:22:11 GMT -5
I would appreciate any response on the genotype and phenotype theories.
My enquiry on that subject appears to have been completely ignored!
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Post by fretslider on Jun 3, 2010 12:15:46 GMT -5
I would appreciate any response on the genotype and phenotype theories. My enquiry on that subject appears to have been completely ignored! Well Mike, there isn't much to say on genotype, because although the instructions are written in the alleles there is still a huge disconnect. One of the ironical consequences of the completion of the Human Genome Project was that it showed us how little the genetic code told us about living organisms, particularly complex ones like us. We can synthesise DNA, but we can't make the containing cell structure which is required for insertion. As for phenotype, well that is only the morphology that results from the expression of an organism's genes in conjunction with the influence of environmental factors and the interactions between the two. Take two siblings. With a largely similar genome and environment, they still turn out to be radically different. That could be down in part to the attitudes of the parental units, then again it may not. |
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Post by beth on Jun 5, 2010 0:01:20 GMT -5
I think distinct personalities are obvious in children as young as 2 or 3. There's no sense of what's appropriate to stop a 3 year old extrovert from being open and accepting or a little introvert from being more self contained. Children have to learn to pretend. Watch them before they've cultivated that skill and you'll see the product of nature at its worst and best.
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Post by Wonder Woman on Jun 8, 2010 9:47:52 GMT -5
Hmm. In essence, when we teach children to be polite, kind, and generous and punish them for rudeness, obstinance, and being mean, we're teaching them early on to lie. And, not only teaching it, demanding it.  |
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Post by beth on Jun 8, 2010 10:28:56 GMT -5
Hmm. In essence, when we teach children to be polite, kind, and generous and punish them for rudeness, obstinance, and being mean, we're teaching them early on to lie. And, not only teaching it, demanding it. Not as drastic as all that. Children seem to come equipped with an inclination toward sympathy/empathy, but the teaching end does introduce them to appropriate behavior and reinforce it. Some seem to just *know*, but most have to learn a temper tantrum won't result in more-and-better and they mustn't pick every flower on the neighbors' rose bush.  |
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Post by fretslider on Jun 8, 2010 12:09:48 GMT -5
Hmm. In essence, when we teach children to be polite, kind, and generous and punish them for rudeness, obstinance, and being mean, we're teaching them early on to lie. And, not only teaching it, demanding it. But the ability to lie is a vital part of our defences. Lying, can on occasion, be virtuous and noble, eg Casablanca. |
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Post by beth on Jun 8, 2010 13:19:47 GMT -5
To a point, perhaps. After all, many characteristics of good manners involve stretching or hedging the truth.
I don't think, though, lying and "trust me" should eber be used about the same thing. It usually isn't necessary to teach that to children ... they seem to learn on their own.
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Post by Dex on Jun 8, 2010 14:57:57 GMT -5
The truth is liks a promise. Once it's said better follow through on it. Kids need to learn to become the truth just as much as when itwon't hurt to tell a lie.
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Post by Wonder Woman on Jun 8, 2010 23:30:44 GMT -5
If 3 year old Carlotta tells Aunt Mattilda with the wide butt, that she's got a big butt, Carlotta's parents will hush them generally, take them aside and tell her that was impolite, and she should apologize. And, there's poor little Carlotta wondering whether it's more important to be polite than it is to be honest, since just yesterday she got punished for lying.
**disclaimer: in my family we'd all be rolling on the floor laughing instead (we all have ~ or have had ~ wide butts.
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Alpha 
