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Post by gabriel on Sept 19, 2010 8:23:40 GMT -5
Of course you are not the only one who gets an edit, Gabriel. Any time I see a post with blatant personal attack I'll take out the garbage.. I'm surprised you didn't realize flames are against the guidelines here. best, Beth Bit late, don't you think? You're realizing, I mean. Never stopped you before. This board favours attacks against the Catholic Church. Prove me wrong. Everytime religion is brought up, it's an attack against the Catholic Church. Not the Protestant churches, or Evangelical Churches, or Hindu/Muslim/Jewish faiths. Just the Catholic Church. |
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Post by Dex on Sept 19, 2010 8:31:35 GMT -5
Did you know she goes to the Catholic church, Gabriel?
Have the common sense to take management complaints to PM. It won't get settled here and you are trying to take the thread off-topic.
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Post by fretslider on Sept 19, 2010 8:51:27 GMT -5
Of course you are not the only one who gets an edit, Gabriel. Any time I see a post with blatant personal attack I'll take out the garbage.. I'm surprised you didn't realize flames are against the guidelines here. best, Beth Bit late, don't you think? You're realizing, I mean. Never stopped you before. This board favours attacks against the Catholic Church. Prove me wrong. Everytime religion is brought up, it's an attack against the Catholic Church. Not the Protestant churches, or Evangelical Churches, or Hindu/Muslim/Jewish faiths. Just the Catholic Church. Er, I was born a Catholic Maybe you need to rethink that one. |
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Post by liberaljoe on Sept 19, 2010 10:21:47 GMT -5
Of course you are not the only one who gets an edit, Gabriel. Any time I see a post with blatant personal attack I'll take out the garbage.. I'm surprised you didn't realize flames are against the guidelines here. best, Beth Bit late, don't you think? You're realizing, I mean. Never stopped you before. This board favours attacks against the Catholic Church. Prove me wrong. Everytime religion is brought up, it's an attack against the Catholic Church. Not the Protestant churches, or Evangelical Churches, or Hindu/Muslim/Jewish faiths. Just the Catholic Church. Don't worry Gabriel The only reason the Catholic Church is under attack is because it is so important. It has over 1.4 billion members and its line goes directly back 2000 years. In Rome there are functioning Catholic Churches that have been functioning since the 2C and 3C - a glorious, marvellous history. Were it insignificant, no-one would bother attacking it It is remarkable, though, how some of th more hysterical posters complain strongly about the Moslem religion being attacked and spring to its defence, whilst at the same time venomously attacking the Catholic Church. But then, such lack of self-awareness combined with indomitable self-righteousnous is quite commonplace. Quite frankly it is fashionable to attack the Catholic Church Let the fashinistas do as they wish. The Catholic Church is far stronger than their passing fads And as for the Pope, when I see him on the TV , my heart goes out to him. He is a good man and that shows in his face. He has made mistakes and he is genuinely sad at that and ashamed of the perverts that have brought obloquy upon the Catholic church But he is a good man; the goodness shines out of his old face - isn't it odd how some old people have an inner beauty that transforms their aged features into an external beauty? He looks shy and a little apprehensive at the boorish reception he might meet from the militant secularists (hasn't Britain shaned itself at the appalling bad manners on display from the Dawkinites?) I honestly think that he is a genuine good and Holy man. I place him in the same category as Nelson Mandela Anyway Gabriel, if the Catholic Church comes under attack on this board, you and I shall put the bastards in their place, will we not? |
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Post by beth on Sept 19, 2010 13:34:11 GMT -5
Religion is a controversial subject, right along with politics and the various flavors of prejudice. I do not like organized religion across the board, mostly because I've long believed it is used by men for power and control over the masses. Catholicism is certainly guilty of that, but it is my favorite of the rest. If I go to a church service (occasionally), it is either in the Catholic church or my younger daughter's non-fundi protestant church. If I have a prejudice, it is, most definitely, toward conservative, fundamentalist protestants ... and, even then, doubt if I'd air it here, except in passing.  "Prove me wrong" Gabriel, I can't prove a negative. Send me links to the posts you believe "prove" JT is anti-catholic. I think you'll probably find your points of reference are simply the personal opinions of individual posters. We don't censor issue based, honest opinion. I'd encourage you to continue to state your own opinion as long as it is based on something besides wild conjecture. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2010 15:33:39 GMT -5
Gabriel, there have been COUNTLESS attacks on Islam on this board. (Too many, IMHO, but that is beside the point.)
I am not a believer and regard all religions as essentially exercises in wish fulfilment and mystic fantasy.
However, I agree that the Catholic Church - probably BECAUSE of the Pope's visit - has lately been receiving a lot of criticism.
I have also seen a couple of posts where the Church of England has been attacked and I think the Mormons were also ridiculed in one thread.
I agree that to date only Lin and I have raised the dangers of Hindu fundamentalism but that is largely because we oppose ALL forms of intolerance whereas SOME members are highly selective in terms of the faiths which they criticise.
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Post by fretslider on Sept 19, 2010 16:22:57 GMT -5
Gabriel, there have been COUNTLESS attacks on Islam on this board. (Too many, IMHO, but that is beside the point.) I am not a believer and regard all religions as essentially exercises in wish fulfilment and mystic fantasy. However, I agree that the Catholic Church - probably BECAUSE of the Pope's visit - has lately been receiving a lot of criticism. I have also seen a couple of posts where the Church of England has been attacked and I think the Mormons were also ridiculed in one thread. I agree that to date only Lin and I have raised the dangers of Hindu fundamentalism but that is largely because we oppose ALL forms of intolerance whereas SOME members are highly selective in terms of the faiths which they criticise. Have you raised these these dangers with the relevant authorities.... in India? |
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Post by beth on Sept 19, 2010 16:40:36 GMT -5
Gabriel, there have been COUNTLESS attacks on Islam on this board. (Too many, IMHO, but that is beside the point.)
hmmmm ... well Mike, I can only call your attention to the fact that JT does allow religious discussion which opens the forums to diverse opinion. It seems to me anyone who feels uncomfortable with that might consider bypassing those threads. Various opinions, whether it be in regard to religion, politics or the best way to grill a steak are not in conflict with proboards tos or our guidelines.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2010 16:43:45 GMT -5
My point, Beth, which I thought was obvious, was that Gabriel was mistaken if he felt that ONLY the Catholic Church had been singled out for attack and that other religions - including Islam, which he specifically mentioned - had NOT been severely attacked on this board.
I can't see that there was ANYTHING in the comments I made to which exception could be taken.
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Post by beth on Sept 19, 2010 18:55:32 GMT -5
Mike, my concern is the perception of "attack" and "under attack". When religious discussion is allowed, there is bound to be divisive opinion. Do you feel any time a poster expresses a dislike of, or concern about, a particular faith or belief system, that opinion constitutes an attack? Because, you see, I don't. Holding forth about JMO issues makes it possible for others to concur or disagree, creating a good solid discussion from which many ideas can be considered and appreciated (or not).
Let's say, for example, I mention I do not like the Mormon beliefs and consider them a kind of cult. Do you think that is an "attack"? I think it is a personal opinion and I should have the right to express it and - even discuss it in a public arena.
If this seems wrong to you ... come back and give me your POV. We are both reasonable people and we can talk.
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Post by liberaljoe on Sept 20, 2010 1:30:49 GMT -5
My point, Beth, which I thought was obvious, was that Gabriel was mistaken if he felt that ONLY the Catholic Church had been singled out for attack and that other religions - including Islam, which he specifically mentioned - had NOT been severely attacked on this board. I can't see that there was ANYTHING in the comments I made to which exception could be taken. Lets face it Michael, yourself and your wife, almost invariably, accuse ANYONE that you happen to disagree with of being Liars, hypocrites and bigots. You seem quite unconscious of your own startling defects in that direction Your attacks on the Catholic Church are typified by the most intemperte language one could hope not to hear. OK , so you do not lke the Catholic Church, but your way of expressing that dislike shows an intolerance that many would regard as bigotry I would say that , although you use these terms more than anyone else on this board, that you are also the biggest practitioners of that which you so freely accuse others of |
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Post by mouse on Sept 20, 2010 2:14:18 GMT -5
the dangers of Hindu fundamentalism but that is largely because we oppose ALL forms of intolerance whereas SOME members are highly selective in terms of the faiths which they criticise. hindu fundementalism is not impacting on the lives of posters on this board....or the uk ...therefore hindu fundementalism is not an every day problem in the uk or america for that matter...that is not being selective that is simply the reality and how you can say you object to intollorance yet suport the ranting paisley and his mob is beyond me its hardly selective to be concerned about what affects one on a day to day basis .........that is normal |
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Post by mouse on Sept 20, 2010 2:28:08 GMT -5
Mike, my concern is the perception of "attack" and "under attack". When religious discussion is allowed, there is bound to be divisive opinion. Do you feel any time a poster expresses a dislike of, or concern about, a particular faith or belief system, that opinion constitutes an attack? Because, you see, I don't. Holding forth about JMO issues makes it possible for others to concur or disagree, creating a good solid discussion from which many ideas can be considered and appreciated (or not). Let's say, for example, I mention I do not like the Mormon beliefs and consider them a kind of cult. Do you think that is an "attack"? I think it is a personal opinion and I should have the right to express it and - even discuss it in a public arena. to not allow discussion and the fors and againsts on any subject defeats the whole premise of a message board its strong views and different views which makes a good message board....and when it comes to religions and politics people do have strong feelings..... and when people hold strong views they have usually come to those views because of what they may have read or seen or experienced...that ISNT bigotry nor should it be put down as simply bigotry or intollorance......people have their reasons for feeling as they do...and those reasons cannot just be wiped out by cries of bigotry or intollorance....and cannot be put down to anything as simple as ""bigotry ot intollorance"" life aint that simple |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2010 14:13:59 GMT -5
Hitler's attacks on the Jews were regarded by him, millions of Nazis who followed him and millions of neo-Nazis today as being valid.
Of course people have strong feelings on religious issues. I freely admit that I am not at all sympathetic to ANY kind of religious belief and regard them ALL as being relics of superstition.
However, I freely admit that overall there have been more terrorist attacks in recent years WORLDWIDE by Muslim extremists than any other group.
All the same, in Europe the IRA/UDA/ETA groupings easily surpass the number of victims killed by Muslims.
None of them are Muslims.
To say Hindu fundamentalism does NOT impact on lives in Britain is simply not true. It may not impact upon your OWN life but it most certainly impacted on the life of a Hindu friend of ours who was eventually disowned by her own family because of her refusal to submit to an arranged marriage.
In India, it impacts DIRECTLY on the lives of ALL non-Hindus, particularly Christians.
If we are attacking Muslims worldwide for their bad actions it is little more than simply hypocrisy to fail to condemn OTHERS who display the same kind of actions and who ALSO carry out terrorist attacks, murders, rapes and other crimes.
I'll put it as simply as I can.
I am opposed to ALL forms of terrorism and religious extremism.
Some posters here only seem to be aware of the Muslim offenders.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2010 14:16:31 GMT -5
As for Catholicism, the Pope does NOT run a democracy in Vatican City. It would probably be more accurate to compare it with a Mafia society with Benedict as the current godfather.
On issues of doctrine I have no wish to split theological hairs.
From my own perspective ALL forms of religious belief are equally delusional.
I may not be willing entirely to rule out the faint POSSIBILITY that a supreme being exists but as to the rest of the nonsense put about by the faithful I regard them with the same degree of pity that I do towards the hundreds of Japanese tourists who still believe that Sherlock Holmes was a real person. (I speak from experience on that one!)
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