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Post by fretslider on Jan 11, 2017 8:23:39 GMT -5
During a Eucharist service at St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral in Glasgow to mark the feast of the Epiphany, a passage from the Koran that denies one of the central tenets of the Christian faith was sung aloud. The passage from Surah 19, which specifically denies that Jesus was the Son of God and says He should not be worshipped, was sung during a Eucharist service at St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral in Glasgow to mark the feast of the Epiphany. A video of the recital was posted on YouTube showing a girl singing the passage in a typical Islamic style. It narrates the Islamic account of the birth of Jesus, which includes the claim that Mary was “ashamed” after giving birth, and the infant Christ miraculously spoke from the cradle – something not found in Christian scripture. She then concludes by singing verse 35, which states in translation: “It befitteth not the Majesty of Allah that He should take unto Himself a son,” and then verse 36, which has the infant Jesus saying: “And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. That is the right path.” The cathedral praised the reading in a Facebook post, calling it a “wonderful event”. Last night's Epiphany celebration in St Mary's was a wonderful event. In the course of service there was an incredibly wide selection of music celebrating the arrival of the magi in Bethlehem. The congregation was also reminded during the service that it is not only Christians who give honour to Jesus. We were joined by friends from two local Muslim communities.Retired Anglican bishop Michael Nazir-Ali strongly condemned it, saying it was especially inappropriate for the feast of the Epiphany, which celebrates the revelation of Christ as the Son of God. Christian Today quotes him as saying: “The authorities of the Scottish Episcopal Church should immediately repudiate this ill-advised invitation.” “Christians should know what their fellow citizens believe and this can include reading the Qur’an for themselves, whether in the original or in translation. This is not, however, the same thing as having it read in Church in the context of public worship,” he added. “It is particularly insensitive to have this passage read in Church on the Feast of the Epiphany when we celebrate not only Christ’s manifestation to the gentiles but also his baptism and the divine declaration, ‘you are my beloved son in whom I am well pleased’.” The Scottish Episcopal Church is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, which also includes the Church of England and America’s Episcopalian Church. The cathedral’s Facebook page also proudly publicises a press report on the provost’s Christmas sermon, in which he compared U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump to the biblical King Herod, who ordered the massacre of children. Translation - www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Quran/Quran_english_arabic_transliteration.php?id=19www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/11/koran-verse-denying-divinity-christ-sung-aloud-scottish-cathedral-service/The Church really has lost it's religion |
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Post by mouse on Jan 11, 2017 9:31:32 GMT -5
one of the few people in this country to understand islam is Nazir-Ali...what can any one do though when the leading lights of the Christian religions become dhimminis and appeasers in the name of multic culture ,, a very mislead attitude .....isis have the answer to that..behead those who do not kneel to the prophets ideas of Allah...slay them where ever ye find them
""""press report on the provost’s Christmas sermon, in which he compared U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump to the biblical King Herod, who ordered the massacre of children."
dear heavens..is there any thing this man is not accused of ...whoops I haven't as yet seen him compared to Hitler or Ghengis Khan....its really getting facical....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 19:44:56 GMT -5
Well, I am not a Christian but I find this extraordinary behaviour.
Perhaps they should suggest that Christian hymns are sung in Mecca.
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Post by fretslider on Jan 15, 2017 16:37:29 GMT -5
The head of the Scottish Episcopal Church has said he is “deeply distressed at the widespread offence” caused by the reading of a passage from the Quran denying the divinity of Christ during an Epiphany service. In a statement posted to his blog site, David Chillingworth, the Primus of the Church appeared to strongly rebuke Kelvin Holdsworth, the Provost of St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral, Glasgow, where the reading took place, arguing that interfaith work, “like all works of reconciliation, must be founded on truth.” He continued: “We approach others with open hearts but we stand in the truth of the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” However, no apology for the reading has been forthcoming; Chillingworth reasoning that the “The decisions which have led to the situation in St Mary’s Cathedral are a matter for the Provost and the Cathedral community.” He added that the church will “bring together all those who are involved in the development of interfaith relations” to explore how the work can be carried out “in ways which will command respect.” Holdsworth himself is unrepentent, writing in a blog post that “local Muslim friends” were invited “as we were reflecting on the arrival of the mysterious Magi at Bethlehem”. The significance is unclear, as the Magi, predating Islam by some six centuries, were Zoroastrian. He continued: “Having a recitation from the Qur’an in a Christian cathedral in worship is not a new thing. “So it has indeed come as something of a surprise to find accounts of last week’s service appearing online and stirring up the most most incredible pot of hatred I’ve ever encountered. The matter came to light after St Mary’s posted a video of verses of the Quran being sung in Arabic during a service to Facebook, along with a message calling it a “wonderful event.” Both the Facebook post and a YouTube version of the reading have since been removed by the Cathedral, after it provoked widespread anger and criticism from Christians, who pointed out that the verses chosen denied the divinity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. The reading can still be viewed elsewhere on Facebook via Madinah Javed, who sang the passages during the service. There was further anger as it emerged that a translation of the verses printed in the Order of Service and handed out to congregants omitted the last two, in which the denial came, leading to confusion. Commenting on matter on the Archbishop Cranmer blogsite, the Rev’d Dr Gavin Ashenden, Chaplain to the Queen, said: “It’s hard to know what was in the mind of the Provost of Glasgow Cathedral when he arranged for this assault on Jesus and the apostles. www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/15/distress-no-apology-epiphany-service-quran-reading/ |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 21:30:41 GMT -5
The head of the Scottish Episcopal Church has said he is “deeply distressed at the widespread offence” caused by the reading of a passage from the Quran denying the divinity of Christ during an Epiphany service. In a statement posted to his blog site, David Chillingworth, the Primus of the Church appeared to strongly rebuke Kelvin Holdsworth, the Provost of St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral, Glasgow, where the reading took place, arguing that interfaith work, “like all works of reconciliation, must be founded on truth.” He continued: “We approach others with open hearts but we stand in the truth of the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” However, no apology for the reading has been forthcoming; Chillingworth reasoning that the “The decisions which have led to the situation in St Mary’s Cathedral are a matter for the Provost and the Cathedral community.” He added that the church will “bring together all those who are involved in the development of interfaith relations” to explore how the work can be carried out “in ways which will command respect.” Holdsworth himself is unrepentent, writing in a blog post that “local Muslim friends” were invited “as we were reflecting on the arrival of the mysterious Magi at Bethlehem”. The significance is unclear, as the Magi, predating Islam by some six centuries, were Zoroastrian. He continued: “Having a recitation from the Qur’an in a Christian cathedral in worship is not a new thing. “So it has indeed come as something of a surprise to find accounts of last week’s service appearing online and stirring up the most most incredible pot of hatred I’ve ever encountered. The matter came to light after St Mary’s posted a video of verses of the Quran being sung in Arabic during a service to Facebook, along with a message calling it a “wonderful event.” Both the Facebook post and a YouTube version of the reading have since been removed by the Cathedral, after it provoked widespread anger and criticism from Christians, who pointed out that the verses chosen denied the divinity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. The reading can still be viewed elsewhere on Facebook via Madinah Javed, who sang the passages during the service. There was further anger as it emerged that a translation of the verses printed in the Order of Service and handed out to congregants omitted the last two, in which the denial came, leading to confusion. Commenting on matter on the Archbishop Cranmer blogsite, the Rev’d Dr Gavin Ashenden, Chaplain to the Queen, said: “It’s hard to know what was in the mind of the Provost of Glasgow Cathedral when he arranged for this assault on Jesus and the apostles. www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/15/distress-no-apology-epiphany-service-quran-reading/you couldn't pay me to walk into an epicopalian church...they are drifting further from the gospel each year that Christian is not a label I would give them...they are a mockery to Christ. |
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Jessiealan
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Post by Jessiealan on Jan 15, 2017 22:01:31 GMT -5
The head of the Scottish Episcopal Church has said he is “deeply distressed at the widespread offence” caused by the reading of a passage from the Quran denying the divinity of Christ during an Epiphany service. In a statement posted to his blog site, David Chillingworth, the Primus of the Church appeared to strongly rebuke Kelvin Holdsworth, the Provost of St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral, Glasgow, where the reading took place, arguing that interfaith work, “like all works of reconciliation, must be founded on truth.” He continued: “We approach others with open hearts but we stand in the truth of the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” However, no apology for the reading has been forthcoming; Chillingworth reasoning that the “The decisions which have led to the situation in St Mary’s Cathedral are a matter for the Provost and the Cathedral community.” He added that the church will “bring together all those who are involved in the development of interfaith relations” to explore how the work can be carried out “in ways which will command respect.” Holdsworth himself is unrepentent, writing in a blog post that “local Muslim friends” were invited “as we were reflecting on the arrival of the mysterious Magi at Bethlehem”. The significance is unclear, as the Magi, predating Islam by some six centuries, were Zoroastrian. He continued: “Having a recitation from the Qur’an in a Christian cathedral in worship is not a new thing. “So it has indeed come as something of a surprise to find accounts of last week’s service appearing online and stirring up the most most incredible pot of hatred I’ve ever encountered. The matter came to light after St Mary’s posted a video of verses of the Quran being sung in Arabic during a service to Facebook, along with a message calling it a “wonderful event.” Both the Facebook post and a YouTube version of the reading have since been removed by the Cathedral, after it provoked widespread anger and criticism from Christians, who pointed out that the verses chosen denied the divinity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. The reading can still be viewed elsewhere on Facebook via Madinah Javed, who sang the passages during the service. There was further anger as it emerged that a translation of the verses printed in the Order of Service and handed out to congregants omitted the last two, in which the denial came, leading to confusion. Commenting on matter on the Archbishop Cranmer blogsite, the Rev’d Dr Gavin Ashenden, Chaplain to the Queen, said: “It’s hard to know what was in the mind of the Provost of Glasgow Cathedral when he arranged for this assault on Jesus and the apostles. www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/15/distress-no-apology-epiphany-service-quran-reading/you couldn't pay me to walk into an epicopalian church...they are drifting further from the gospel each year that Christian is not a label I would give them...they are a mockery to Christ. You are very judgmental and sadly self righteous. Why would you lump all Episcopalian churches together as approving of this action, I can not imagine, except the old axiom still is true. You think you are the only one here. |
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Post by mouse on Jan 16, 2017 5:17:45 GMT -5
""""So it has indeed come as something of a surprise to find accounts of last week’s service appearing online and stirring up the most most incredible pot of hatred I’ve ever encountered."""
why in the name of glory does it come as a supprise that others do not agree and in very obvious terms ? surely no one can be so blind or so naïve as not to expect a reaction ..any one that naïve should be removed from post ..because its this idocy and appeasement which is leaduing us down the road...
plus
""""The matter came to light after St Mary’s posted a video of verses of the Quran being sung in Arabic during a service"""
is the idiot unaware that singing is not acceptable and that singing verses of the koran a definite NO and for many of the more hysterical brothers would be construed as an insult to islam
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 16, 2017 6:14:46 GMT -5
""""So it has indeed come as something of a surprise to find accounts of last week’s service appearing online and stirring up the most most incredible pot of hatred I’ve ever encountered.""" why in the name of glory does it come as a supprise that others do not agree and in very obvious terms ? surely no one can be so blind or so naïve as not to expect a reaction ..any one that naïve should be removed from post ..because its this idocy and appeasement which is leaduing us down the road... plus """"The matter came to light after St Mary’s posted a video of verses of the Quran being sung in Arabic during a service""" is the idiot unaware that singing is not acceptable and that singing verses of the koran a definite NO and for many of the more hysterical brothers would be construed as an insult to islam Hi Mouse, that seems to be the thing nowadays that different denominations group together, each stating what their beliefs are and perhaps discussing the reasons why they think this way. Nobody is browbeating anyone, it is all very civil and informative. None of it is meant to be insulting but rather a means of understanding each other's beliefs. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 16, 2017 6:40:32 GMT -5
Well, I am not a Christian but I find this extraordinary behaviour. Perhaps they should suggest that Christian hymns are sung in Mecca. Hi MikeMarshall, we know very well that this would never ever be allowed to happen, but at the same time, we in the West are more open minded, are we to invite some denominations to participate but exclude Islam? It really is a dilemma of momentous proportions as far as I can see. |
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Post by mouse on Jan 16, 2017 6:57:08 GMT -5
""""So it has indeed come as something of a surprise to find accounts of last week’s service appearing online and stirring up the most most incredible pot of hatred I’ve ever encountered.""" why in the name of glory does it come as a supprise that others do not agree and in very obvious terms ? surely no one can be so blind or so naïve as not to expect a reaction ..any one that naïve should be removed from post ..because its this idocy and appeasement which is leaduing us down the road... plus """"The matter came to light after St Mary’s posted a video of verses of the Quran being sung in Arabic during a service""" is the idiot unaware that singing is not acceptable and that singing verses of the koran a definite NO and for many of the more hysterical brothers would be construed as an insult to islam Hi Mouse, that seems to be the thing nowadays that different denominations group together, each stating what their beliefs are and perhaps discussing the reasons why they think this way. Nobody is browbeating anyone, it is all very civil and informative. None of it is meant to be insulting but rather a means of understanding each other's beliefs. understanding each other belifes...seems to me the questionable understanding is all one way and certainly not an equal partnership perhaps next Christmas we can look forward to a rendering of Handles Messiah at one of the larger mosgues it being sung by a newly created Muslim choir........mmmmm and pigs may indeed fly ...they will be cooking bacon butties for the homeless before that happens |
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Post by mouse on Jan 16, 2017 10:59:43 GMT -5
Well, I am not a Christian but I find this extraordinary behaviour. Perhaps they should suggest that Christian hymns are sung in Mecca. Hi MikeMarshall, we know very well that this would never ever be allowed to happen, but at the same time, we in the West are more open minded, are we to invite some denominations to participate but exclude Islam? It really is a dilemma of momentous proportions as far as I can see. not sure whether its openmindedness or not...but we do have a totally different approach .. of course it wasnt that long ago that we didn't have an open minded approach although we do and in general did see a man relationship with god as a very personal one ..albeit within the confines of accepted religious teachings and norms of the dsy where for many islam has stood still in time and not moved on from the dsys of the prophet..nor do they want it to move on from those days |
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Post by men an tol on Jan 16, 2017 11:36:11 GMT -5
Hi MikeMarshall, we know very well that this would never ever be allowed to happen, but at the same time, we in the West are more open minded, are we to invite some denominations to participate but exclude Islam? It really is a dilemma of momentous proportions as far as I can see. not sure whether its openmindedness or not...but we do have a totally different approach .. of course it wasnt that long ago that we didn't have an open minded approach although we do and in general did see a man relationship with god as a very personal one ..albeit within the confines of accepted religious teachings and norms of the dsy where for many islam has stood still in time and not moved on from the dsys of the prophet..nor do they want it to move on from those days The West has evolved blended to various degrees with Christianity. One of the most common elements is that the individual has freewill, both in Western culture and in Christianity. This is not accepted within Islam as the individual must follow the book. Even I as an Atheist have a place within Western culture but not within Islamic culture. In this sense the West is open to differing approaches inclusive of varying approaches to religion, but that is not true in a country controlled by Islam. In that sense, there is no path to the mixing of these two cultures. Trying to mix these two cultures seems to always result in the same thing, that is, the West changing to accommodate Islam, but not the other way around. At most, when those of Islam are a very small portion of a population, they will concede to what is to them a foreign culture. But as the Islam population grows they begin to demand that changes are made to accommodate Islam. In Islamic controlled cultures, such accommodations do not exist. In fact, for people such as myself (an Atheist) the only future is death. My point is that these two culture are not compatible except in the sense that the West must change to accommodate Islamic culture. That path leads to only one end and that is the end of Western culture. |
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Jan 16, 2017 16:07:16 GMT -5
Hi MikeMarshall, we know very well that this would never ever be allowed to happen, but at the same time, we in the West are more open minded, are we to invite some denominations to participate but exclude Islam? It really is a dilemma of momentous proportions as far as I can see. not sure whether its openmindedness or not...but we do have a totally different approach .. of course it wasnt that long ago that we didn't have an open minded approach although we do and in general did see a man relationship with god as a very personal one ..albeit within the confines of accepted religious teachings and norms of the dsy where for many islam has stood still in time and not moved on from the dsys of the prophet..nor do they want it to move on from those days Hi Mouse, We all make a choice as to what we end up believing, that is our prerogative. I have noticed however that the majority seemingly win the day, so I guess that is classed as normal behaviour. But I don't think that force should enter into the equasion. Everything should be agreed on, otherwise it is not being honest. Normal people go through life trying to be as humane as possible under every circumstance but ofcourse that doesn't seem to apply with those who are Muslim. People were brutal a way back then and as you have pointed out, the Prophet who apparently was that way inclined is still being believed and common sense has inevitably lost the battle. |
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Post by fretslider on Jan 17, 2017 16:44:18 GMT -5
The Scottish cathedral that allowed a girl to read a passage from the Quran denying the divinity of Christ should apologise to Christians “suffering dreadful persecution at the hands of Muslims”, the Queen’s chaplain has said. Last week a muslim girl sang Surah 19, which specifically denies that Jesus was the Son of God and says He should not be worshipped, during a service to St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral in Glasgow. Now the Rev Gavin Ashenden, one of the chaplains to Queen Elizabeth II, has said the reading could be described as “blasphemy”. He said the cathedral should apologise to Christians who are persecuted by Muslims. In a letter to The Times, Rev Ashenden says: “Quite apart from the wide distress (some would say blasphemy) caused by denigrating Jesus in Christian worship, apologies may be due to the Christians suffering dreadful persecution at the hands of Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere. “To have the core of a faith for which they have suffered deeply treated so casually by senior Western clergy such as the Provost of Glasgow is unlikely to have a positive outcome. “There are other and considerably better ways to build “bridges of understanding”.” He also wrote in a post for the Archbishop Cranmer blog that it was highly unlikely a Christian would be invited to proclaim the divinity of Christ at Friday prayers in a mosque. “There was no dialogue in the Epiphany Eucharist; only a refutation of what Christians hold most dear and upon which salvation depends. “In over 30 years of interfaith conversations, I have never yet come across a Muslim community which allowed those passages in the Gospels acclaiming the divinity of Christ to be read in Friday prayers.” As outrage grew over the reading, the head of the Scottish Episcopal Church said he was “deeply distressed at the widespread offence”, saying Christians cannot offend their own religion in the name of inter-faith dialogue. “We approach others with open hearts but we stand in the truth of the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,” he said. However, the cathedral’s provost, Kelvin Holdsworth, was unrepentant and even suggested that those who were offended were actually attacking him because he is gay. www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/17/queens-chaplain-condemns-quran-reading-scottish-cathedral/Why hasn't he been disciplined or sanctioned in some way? Repentance is a very Christian thing - if you can bring yourself to repent, that is... He obviously cannot. |
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Post by mouse on Jan 18, 2017 6:06:36 GMT -5
well considering that most people on reading the first report wouldn't know he was gay that is a very silly allegation for him to make
am not sure who this cathederal will be answerable to..but there will be some form of authority
but saying he is gay actually raises eye brows even more on his actions...is he unaware of the Islamic attitude on homosexuality ?
the whole issue is incomprehensible verging on insane thinking and execution...this will not bring communities together...quite the opposite...it will bring a greater wedge
but typical thinking by the wooley rightons who cannot see the pit into which they are being guided
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Alpha 
