Erasmus
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"We do not take prisoners - we liberate them" - http://www.aeonbytegnosticradio.com
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Post by Erasmus on Jul 23, 2011 18:16:26 GMT -5
It's more usual to marvel at the sheer insanity and mad ignorance of offerings across the Web that at their reasonableness, so I'm offering this one as an example of raving common sense of the kind all too rare and often likely to get its proponents lynched for pulling the rug out from under the madmen. It raises the question though, just what is it that leads to the deep hatreds that go far beyond the mere understandable prejudices of liking or disliking how people may behave or think or look. In American racism perhaps a lingering guilt plays a part, as anti-Semitism flared in the later 1940s in countries like Poland: if it hadn't been for the Jews, there would have been no secret partition and invasion leading to war. Garbage of course. Then again, social Darwinism played a strong part in justifying slavery long before real Darwinism existed, and among those most opposed to it. The land squabble between Palestinians and Israelis is of the order of war between any colonized people and its colonizers, but its extension to Jews who do not support Israel enough to go there and often object to its existence and to Muslims who have never flocked to join the Palestinians in the way Europeans did to both sides of the Spanish Civil War is a different order of prejudice altogether. So just what different beliefs might motivate the zealots? And there's the name of what must be the original religious terrorist organization! |
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2011 1:59:35 GMT -5
the reasons people hate are as many and as varied as the people them selves
fear,,a percieved injustice,,a real injustice..a wrong doing left to fester..misunderstanding..history...som e times these things can be resolved on the surface but still rankle underneath..and some times the hate goes on for millenia and some times it is justified
some times the word hate is misused becauseb it isnt so much hate as a wariness that history will repeat its self,,,,and it goes way beyond religion
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 4:01:40 GMT -5
People do NOT hate., end of...
Some religions do, e.g Mohammedanism. That encourages some peole to incite hatred in the name of religion.
Although organised religion is by far the dominant organised belief system, it is not the only one. Fascism especially under the Third Reich is the obvious example. I suspect there are others.
Prashna
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Post by maggie on Jul 24, 2011 4:11:41 GMT -5
Children aren't born hating - someone or something turns people to hatred.
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Post by trubble on Jul 24, 2011 7:13:18 GMT -5
Is it helplessness, perhaps?
Whether it's an individual feeling helpless or an organisation preaching it, the thought of having no recourse and no control can become so huge that resentment takes over until the only emotion left is hatred. Hatred is attached to survival and war. It has to come out, whether in self destruction form or in actions that hurt others to appease the building volcano of frustration and pain.
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Post by mouse on Jul 24, 2011 8:45:10 GMT -5
Is it helplessness, perhaps? Whether it's an individual feeling helpless or an organisation preaching it, the thought of having no recourse and no control can become so huge that resentment takes over until the only emotion left is hatred. Hatred is attached to survival and war. It has to come out, whether in self destruction form or in actions that hurt others to appease the building volcano of frustration and pain. yes i think that is one type of hate..although of course it isnt hate at all as you rightly say.....helplessness...frustration to breaking point..and usually over the actions of others |
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Post by trubble on Jul 24, 2011 15:03:53 GMT -5
Or perceived actions. Or preceived helplessness. Power is in the eye of the beholder, or something....
I think a strong religious faith in something like christianity is so helpful when we feel like this. There's something liberating about a higher power. People can be freed from hatred by passing the problem to God.
There are other ways to go about that too. Getting some perspective on things, realising that other people's actions are rarely if ever about you and nearly always about themselves.
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Post by beth on Jul 24, 2011 21:53:07 GMT -5
Getting some perspective on things, realising that other people's actions are rarely if ever about you and nearly always about themselves.
This is quite often true.
"Helplessness" may be perceived as a state that cries out for sympathy/empathy, but sometimes, those who feel helpless are focused on greed or envy and not a positive goal at all.
If someone wants a new car and feels helpless in not being able to afford a new car, he could pass that on to hatred toward his boss or his family or ... even the neighbor who just bought a new car.
I think many of the baser emotions serve to feed hatred.
Maggie's right. Children don't hate but in many environments they learn very quickly.
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Erasmus
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Deep Thought Mod
"We do not take prisoners - we liberate them" - http://www.aeonbytegnosticradio.com
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Post by Erasmus on Jul 25, 2011 0:19:05 GMT -5
People do NOT hate., end of...Some religions do, e.g Mohammedanism. That encourages some peole to incite hatred in the name of religion. Although organised religion is by far the dominant organised belief system, it is not the only one. Fascism especially under the Third Reich is the obvious example. I suspect there are others. Prashna When you look deep into what Nazism taught, hate was secondary. Its real teaching was contradictory fear that the Master Race could somehow be brought down by its inferiors. At the time, it was commonplace among all Europeans and their extensions in America, India and Australia and the rest - America having replaced its indigenous population with those derived from slaves. |
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Post by mouse on Jul 25, 2011 2:23:34 GMT -5
not ALL europeans...ALL indicates ev every one
most areas of the world have either been slaves or had slaves at some period in their history
slavery is part of human history and not the sole province of any area or peoples
even to day slavery is alive and well
beth said..I think many of the baser emotions serve to feed hatred. ...absolutely
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Post by trubble on Jul 25, 2011 15:49:26 GMT -5
Getting some perspective on things, realising that other people's actions are rarely if ever about you and nearly always about themselves. This is quite often true. "Helplessness" may be perceived as a state that cries out for sympathy/empathy, but sometimes, those who feel helpless are focused on greed or envy and not a positive goal at all. If someone wants a new car and feels helpless in not being able to afford a new car, he could pass that on to hatred toward his boss or his family or ... even the neighbor who just bought a new car. I think many of the baser emotions serve to feed hatred. Maggie's right. Children don't hate but in many environments they learn very quickly. Very true. Powerlessness might be a more appropriate word, power having more negative associations. Sometimes - often - it's easier to get angry and hate something/one than to look to yourself and deal with feelings of failure of disappointment - (and those feelings may even be irrational, so maybe that's when hate becomes blatantly irrational). |
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Post by beth on Jul 25, 2011 16:02:58 GMT -5
"Helplessness" may be perceived as a state that cries out for sympathy/empathy, but sometimes, those who feel helpless are focused on greed or envy and not a positive goal at all. If someone wants a new car and feels helpless in not being able to afford a new car, he could pass that on to hatred toward his boss or his family or ... even the neighbor who just bought a new car. I think many of the baser emotions serve to feed hatred. Maggie's right. Children don't hate but in many environments they learn very quickly. [/quote] Very true. Powerlessness might be a more appropriate word, power having more negative associations. Sometimes - often - it's easier to get angry and hate something/one than to look to yourself and deal with feelings of failure of disappointment - (and those feelings may even be irrational, so maybe that's when hate becomes blatantly irrational). [/quote] Powerlessness is a good word and more accurate I think. Hate seems to me to be a very extreme emotion ... way beyond annoyance and even anger. Now and then there's confusion. "Do you hate that?" ... "No, but it really ticks me off".  Hateful is an interesting word, too. Those who hate are often hateful  . Makes sense (hateful = hate-filled). |
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Post by trubble on Jul 25, 2011 16:43:51 GMT -5
And hatred too; emotions are described as if they are an entity in their own right, something that you encounter or experience rather than create.
In Irish (as Gaeilge) they don't say that you feel an emotion, you can't be happy/sad, for example.
They say hatred is upon you. Actually, I don't know the word for hatred in Irish but I know the words for other emotions.
Tá eagla orm - there is fear on me. Tá brón ort - there is sorrow on you.
Likewise with hunger and thirst, thus (I suppose?) the Hiberno-English idiom ''he had a great thirst on him...''
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Erasmus
Moderatorz
Deep Thought Mod
"We do not take prisoners - we liberate them" - http://www.aeonbytegnosticradio.com
Posts: 2,489
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Post by Erasmus on Jul 25, 2011 19:39:36 GMT -5
That raises some very philosophical thoughts. For instance, although it is possible in ancient languages to say that somebody felt or had an emotion, it would be common to speak of strong emotion in terms of possession. Indeed the word Enthusiasm is a Hellenism meaning to have a god within. It may be that Christianity has muted the Irish down to the abstract equivalent, or conversely that the ancients naturally personified everything and did not distinguish the abstraction from its personification. There are similar French literalisms in traditional Channel Island English where it would be common to say There's a great thirst to me and It's a bad temper with that one.
For that matter, where an emotion stands in apposition without object, European languages still prefer to have the abstraction and returning to Hate specifically, even English does not have a form equivalent to He is frightened: one can say Hitler hated the Jews but to say Hitler was hateful may be true but means that he was the one hated. German can say Hitler hasste die Juden but to describe him reverts to Hitler hatte Hass while French would more likely say that Hitler avait la haine or Hitler était plein de haine and if necessary add aux juifs. Although Hitler haissait les juifs is possible, it would probably be received in a way equivalent to an Americanism.
After all that, I'm not entirely sure whether Hate in the sense implied here really counts as an emotion or something deeper that drives emotions. I see nothing wrong with prejudice; every like and dislike is a prejudice and without them, we might be in our personal Nirvarna but scarcely human and precious little use in improving anything, like the Stoics content to look on dispassionately without letting involvement or judgment disturb their peace.
I think fear underlies hate and insecurity or weakness underly fear.
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Post by fretslider on Jul 26, 2011 13:30:13 GMT -5
I hate questions like these  It has to be a miscela of nature and nurture. Some will forgive next to nothing, most will forgive most things, and some will forgive just about anything. Some people genuinely hate, most I believe take an intense dislike. |
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Omega
. Makes sense (hateful = hate-filled).
